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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
Don't be so quick to condemn. It may be that someone in the towers was cooking rice that day, that would "explain" the black smoke. Oxygen? Oxygen! We don't need no stinkin oxygen!
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens."
Ms. Britney Spears
Owen: I notice you thank paul for his "polite and well reasoned response," but you don't actually refute any of his arguments, or defend your own against his responses. All you do, in fact, is fall back on the same old "they're so big and we're so small" victimhood rhetoric that every demagogue, charlatan and conspiracy-buff uses to excuse their total lack of a solid case or useful results. I've heard it from the creationists adn Holocaust-deniers, and you're no different.
So now we have proof that you can't defend your arguments in polite and well-reasoned debate.
The PATRIOT Act, a 1000 page piece of legislation, was tabled about a month after the attacks. That's mighty fast law writing. They were ready. They knew.
That kind of law is what authoritarians specialize in, and has nothing to do with any particular crisis. The far-right authoritarians who wrote it did not need any foreknowledge of 9/11 to write it. If you actually kept up on the news, you would know that they've been talking about sacrificing freedom for "security" ever since 1980.
And they have been brilliant, absolutely brilliant, at shutting down the constitution, the apparatus of government, and controlling the press and the debate. I think that they were superb at getting their mission accomplished. They got Afghanistan, they got Iraq, and yes, it was a bit more than they could chew, but they are still there, the bases are built, and the oil is flowing...
Establishing dictatorship doesn't require any real brilliance -- that's why so many moronic bullies are able to do it. The fact that you consider Bush & Co. "brilliant" only proves your own mind-bogglng stupidity. And no, the "bases" are not built; and no, the oil is not flowing. Our presence in Iraq has given us no added power in that region, and the oil can't even pay for the occupation, let alone profit anyone. If that's your idea of "brilliance," then you can't be considered a realiable source on any subject. Your word is as worthless as a flat-Earther's.
http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/385/Default.aspx
Very interesting article, with lots of references to MSM articles. Once again, I don't know what these guys were doing that day, but Jeebus, they were up to something.
"We are not your problem, the Palestinians are your problem". Really?
Of course if these guys had been Pals... the story, would be spun a little differently. And they'd still be in Gitmo.
All they needed was a "new Pearl harbor" and they got that. LIHOP or MIHOP, for me that is about the sole remaining question.
Absolutely agreed. I'm pretty much in the LIHOP camp, simply because I don't believe those imbeciles could make anything happen according to plan. However, if a proper investigation were to show that all the irregularities were caused by good old fashioned fuckupery, combined with an attempt to cover up said fuckups, I wouldn't be all that surprised.
I mean, let's look at Bush's "success stories," as you listed them.
Subvert the Constitution? They've had a great run, but they've been thwarted by the Constitution on many occasions, and it looks like it's happening again with telecom immunity. If they'd really done a proper job, this would not be happening.
Wage war in the Middle East? Sure, they got to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, but the plan was to use those "successes" to regime-change the entire Middle East. Not only did that not pan out, but now the limitations of the US military are visible for all to see. And by breaking the military, they've probably removed the military option for future administrations just as occurred after Vietnam.
I totally agree that a real investigation is required. The thing is, in calling for that investigation, the "truthers" need to appear reasonable, not loony. There are very reasonable reasons why a new investigation should occur, but it's not because of high-fiving Israelis, missiles shooting from 757s, jumbo jets on remote control, or any other pure conjecture. I've had innumerable discussions with "truthers" who believe in these things the way Catholics believe in the virgin birth. These people will not get far in convincing reasonable people over to their way of viewing things.
To get a new investigation, we need the request to highlight the obvious deficiencies of the official report, to fully disclose that the real truth is currently unknown due to decisions in government, and to assert that knowing the real truth is vital to national security.
Once again, I don't know what these guys were doing that day, but Jeebus, they were up to something.
Ironically, my brother (a hardcore Republican) uses this exact excuse in defense of invading Iraq.
I did not attempt a point by point refutation with Paul, because we, at least, are discussing this issue, even though we disagree on some points. What you do is bicker, snicker and attack.
Thanks!
How about that super aviation fuel? I could use some of that?
You need to get off the fence paulpsd7. Both stories can't be correct any more than both stories can be incorrect. As to the Bush Administration's incompetence,while their socio/economic incompetence is beyond dispute, that image largely stems from the imbecile known as Bush. Bush didn't need to carry out the attack or plan it: they have the Pentagon and the CIA for that. Flipping it over, you need to look at what you do believe- that a bunch of Saudi students from Hamburg, who could hardly fly a plane performed feats of military-style flying that only skilled and experienced pilots could possibly have performed. That the US airforce sat on the ground and did nothing because they were feeling lazy that day. That a plane was allowed to fly for forty minutes towards the Pentagon and was not shot down by the batteries of anti aircraft missiles around the Pentagon programmed to shoot down any plane without a military transponder on board. According to the testimony of Norman Mineta, Secretary of Transport, to the 9/11 Commission, Mineta was with Dick Cheney in the Presidential Emergency Control Centre that day (Bush had been taken away somewhere like a helpless child) and Cheney calmly watched this plane fly towards the Pentagon for forty minutes. A young man kept him informed of the plane's progress and when it was 10 minutes away from the Pentagon he said to Dick Cheney: 'Do the orders still stand?' and Cheney barked 'Of course the orders still stand have you heard anything to the contrary?' Now, I don't know about you but my lips immediately form the words, 'What orders?' And when I find out that the chain of command was changed in the days leading up to 9/11 so that only Donald Rumsfeld could order the airforce to respond to an airborne attack on the United States I ask 'Why?' and 'Why Didn't he?' The Mossad agents, famously known in some quarters as 'The Dancing Israelis' were real and featured in a story on CBS a short time after 9/11. They drew so much attention to themselves that the FBI was tailing their van. Who they really were and what they were doing, no one knows. The point is, no one has tried to find out. NOTHING about 9/11 has actually been investigated since the 9/11 Commission was purely a PR exercise and as such was yet another scandalous waste of taxpayers' money. But, I suppose when you've killed so many taxpayers stealing their money comes easy.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
