To me, that's an unbelievably presumptuous attitude."

July 2007: "The Vatican issued a document Tuesday restating its belief that the Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ."

Well, then the Catholic Church has a very presumptuous attitide...

"Having lived in both Georgia and South Carolina, I can tell you firsthand, Christian evangelicals don't like the Catholic Church, and don't consider its followers to be Christians. To me, that's an unbelievably presumptuous attitude."

Yet, it's music to this R.C.'s ears. I'd prefer not to be associated with those lunatics and really hate when people equate the two.

Then again, I was raised by Catholics who believed abortion was a sin but that women had the right to choose. Crazy, huh? Much has changed since the 70s, it seems.

Nagapie - we left-leaning R.C.'s are out here, at least in the Northeast. I'm a born-and-bred Democrat and feminist and, as somebody pointed out earlier, believe that the Church does more good than harm, on balance. I was married in the Church, have had all of my children baptized, and attend Mass. I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's an enormous institution and I believe its global stances don't necessarily jibe with local parishes. And, say what you will, the Church has absolutely always given a shit about poor people, which is more than I can say about a lot of other religions.

Conservative Catholics who call liberals "cafeteria Catholics" will be picking up their trays and lining up for that delicious cafeteria goodness, for they are going to ignore the living snot out of a papal encyclical that's critical of capitalism.

Sometimes they burn witches when they feel the need to exert their power. At other times they are populists when they see the need to placate the herds. There's a reason it's been a dominant religion around the world for over a thousand years--it's called "market-savvy".

The pope's current populism proves he's smarter than most of the Republican leaders in the good ol' US of A. I realize it's a low bar, but when you're only competing to be the lesser of a whole bunch of evils...just a "little bit more savvy" is priceless.

"And, say what you will, the Church has absolutely always given a shit about poor people, which is more than I can say about a lot of other religions."

-- Randy G.

Really? I object. Islam actually has mandated almsgiving. That's right, give to the poor or burn. It's not just "give to the poor sometime" it's "do it regularly or else..." idk how they enforce that, or any of the details, but that sounds like suiting actions to words right there. Just saying...

A lot of folks on here have pointed to Catholicism's caring for the poor. And they do fund a lot of hospitals. But they also kind of support policies and practices that prolong or deepen poverty...like outlawing condom use, supporting evil dictators or what have you. Mostly what they seem to do is giving fish to people, not so much teaching them to fish (and possibly taking a few rods and nets away). I don't know how it balances out in the end, but I'd be careful considering them socialist; though they do seem to think in Social terms (but half the time in some rather unhelpful social terms).

Just saying.

Many of the things it does, and has done, are bad.

Many of the things it does, and has done, are good.

Others are mostly good and somewhat bad, and still others somewhat good, and mostly bad.

So is the Church good or is it bad? In fact, the question is improper, an example of the bifurcation fallacy.

The presentation of only two alternatives where others exist is called the fallacy of bifurcation. Sometimes known as the ‘black and white’ fallacy, it presents an ‘either ... or’ situation when in reality there is a range of options.

It's not an either-or proposition.

Nobody's perfect. I myself thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

I find it difficult to understand why people try and place the Catholic Church as ether conservative or liberal. It is a millennium old institution with its own values and shared history. There is no reason to believe that it would pigeonhole nicely into a modern political structure that is a product of recent US history.

The simple fact is that the Catholic Church is simply alien to US politics, and must be understood as such.

(and yes I am a progressive leaning Catholic)

books have been written by brilliant people of the chatholic faith, detailing how the present pope for his entire career has been the antithesis of anything "liberal". just like his bosom buddy the previous pontiff, he has done what he can to oppose many basic human freedoms. i want the church to live up to the values Jesus taught and not just in the economic sphere, so i wait for a leader to come along who will embrace the founder of our faith. IT DEFINITELY IS NOT THIS ONE.

The Catholic Church has been providing "socialized medicine" and "socialized education" to the Third World for hundreds of years before Obama or the modern liberal movement was even conceived. The Catholic Church is one of the few organizations in the world that has had the balls to brazenly stand up American and Israeli imperialism. Archbishop Oscar Romero lost his life because he stood up to American-trained death squads that were terrorizing the countryside of El Salvador. Yes, it is anti-abortion. It has also been in the vanguard of the anti-war, anti-death penalty and anti-poverty movements. It has definitely done more to ease poverty and suffering in Africa than all the Democratic administrations of the US combined.

that the Pope's name is actually Benedict, not Benedictine.

It talks a lot about the US' overall lack of knowledge about the Catholic Church.

As a former Catholic who recently freed themselves from all religious beliefs (does anybody who thinks about this stuff REALLY believe it?) I must say that the Pope should stop making declarations about what is good and bad until he is sure that every single member of his professional clergy who mentally, physically or sexually abused members of their congregations is doing hard time in prison. He has no right to dictate to anyone about anything. Nor does any member of any religion.

We will all be better off when we stop being afraid of Gods and Churches and instead focus on being compassionate with each other.