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Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:00 AM

The Pope's liberal Christian values

Social justice, wealth redistribution, a new morality for Wall Street -- the pontiff throws down on capitalism

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Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:22 PM

well kreoth

maybe if the catholic church wasnt such a disgusting intitution with a long history of all things horrid...the currently tells people in overpopulated and HIV infected countries in Africa not to use birth control, constantly fights against equal rights for gay people, fights stem cell research, fights a woman's right to choose...and on top of all that propogates superstitions so that people will give them big piles of money which they use to buy gold toilets for the vatican....not to mention a factory of ikuku-ing alter boys...

we would not have so much to work with.

Tell me, what is the real difference between being a member of the RC and being a member of focus on the family?

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:24 PM

I made the same mistake of believing in the hippyish side of R.C. throughout my childhood.

Several of the previous letters make astute points that I fully agree with. I will only add that actions speak louder than words and it is obvious that this pope and the previous one preferred GWB and RR to Carter of Clinton. Only on Easter Sunday they would always crow about peace and love. Plausible deniability and selectivity are very well developed skills of the Catholic church. The Nazi Pope is especially aware of how handy these methods can be. This guy really was a Nazi, and he still would be if that side had won.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:26 PM

Sheesh

You people are impossible to please. A guy tells you exactly what you want to hear and you tear him apart anyway. I feel the love here, I really do.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:27 PM

I love articles like these

All the tolerant do-gooders get to sharpen their claws. Kitty's favorite scratching cross.

If the Pope had liberal values he'd be in the tank for Israel, cheerleading and funding our now-humanitarian dead end wars, and all the wealth in the Vatican would belong to his bankster pals.

Liberal intervention is intellectually, morally, and economically bankrupt, but the cheerleaders keep on pretending that isn't the case. Christians aren't the only true believers.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:32 PM

Da Pope's got a rockin' hat though

Does anyone really argue Catholic doctrine anymore? You know them blacks are subjagatin' owu chillin' into the devil's music!

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:36 PM

Did you also know that the liberal Catholic Church of yours

Is also pushing though an anti-blasphemy law in Ireland....

ya, and anti-blasphemy law...in 2009.

Go Ireland! way to join the 15th century.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:47 PM

Nice to be consistent

He complains about the inequality between nations AND outsourcing by rich nations to poor nations?

I guess I shouldn't expect any real logic in a German writing in Latin for a religion with even worse disparities between rich and poor.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:49 PM

@Felix

Remember, part of being a great religious leader is knowing your clap trap

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:53 PM

But...it is obvious...

Catholicism has always been liberal. This is not the first social encyclical letter but the sixth one or so. Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching

(By the way, the Bible IS liberal. Read the prophets screaming about the rich, read the teachings of Jesus Christ: What about "leave everything and follow me" (told from Christ to a young rich man) or "it is harder for a rich to enter the Heaven's Kingdom than for a camel to enter a needle") - Please excuse me my translation: I have learned these texts in my native language and I don't have time to consult the Bible online.

But USA worldview derives from the Puritan who founded this nation and who had a religion close to Calvinism. In Calvinism, wealth is a sign of being a good person (in fact, of being between the chosen ones by God to be saved). Out of it, derives laissez-faire capitalism and the American contempt to the poor. In my native language (product of centuries of Catholicism), there is no word for "loser": the poor are poor but don't have such stigma of being incompetent or flawed.

This is why Protestant countries have embraced capitalism first and better. Read "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism", the classical book by Max Weber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism

Yes, catholicism has been opposed to communism and Pope John Paul II had an important role in the demise of this economic system. But the problems of Church with communism were the lack of freedoms and the persecution of religious beliefs. They were not social. Catholic doctrine has never been neoliberal: it has always advocated a kind of Social-democratic policy, like the one in Europe.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 04:54 PM

not that suprising

As someone pointed out earlier here, Roman Catholicism is not necessarily politically conflatable with Evangelical Christianity. Quite the contrary.

From the strong Roman Catholic identity that the liberal politcal Kennedys have evinced, to the very leftist liberation theology based in Latin America, to Dorothy Day, and even Joan Walsh, there are many examples of Roman Catholics not necessarily being in step with the American right wing go-go free market capitalism ideology.

There has always been a very strong social justice strain within Roman Catholicism. Before there was such a thing as a reliable safety net/welfare system in this county, the Roman Catholic church built hospitals,schools and charities to serve the poor and the needy.

I am not longer a practicing Catholic, but one of the few things that I am very proud of when contemplating my Roman Catholic heritage, is this strong Catholic commitment to social justice.

I must add though, that parishes differ. In a chruch with a billion people in it, there's going to be some heavy poltical and ideological diversity. Some parishes are pretty conservative, some are far more liberal. I'm just not that surprised that a Pope would be talking about social justice this way. It's not that unusual for a Catholic to talk about and believe so openly in social justice and helping the poor, such as the current Pope did.

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 05:03 PM

"is this strong Catholic commitment to social justice."

unless you are gay... or a witch.

please, this is such nonsense. Look, the Taliban is anti capitalism also... they have much in common.

The Chruch cares about one thing...The Chruch.

as far as Jesus is concerned, he was a communist, no doubt. He was also an idiot. He told people the end was coming soon, and they should give up everything and wait for it. That's why his early followers all became beggers.

Sorry, not a model anyone intends on following.

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