Today, Ron Gettlefinger, UAW President said UAW members average or median out (I'm not sure which), at just under $30 per hour, and that Toyota has claimed parity for its factory people. So that's about $60,000 per year, with comparable health plans, and better pensions for the UAW.

New UAW hires are making $14 per hour with no pensions.

You are so right!!

The parties touted support of the worker during the election, particularly the Republicans with Joe the Plumber, but in reality they have been systematically destroying it for years. Continually giving more and more by way of tax breaks and loopholes to the wealthy. Failure to give loans to the automakers should have been the last straw!

Our own country -- states in particular - give more money (perhaps 10 x so) to foreign automakers than the US automakers were asking for in loans -- not in giveaways. And those foreign companies in addition receive assistance from their own countries or are owned by their governments.

And the bailouts of Wall Street and the Banks and their continuation of conducting business as usual -- receiving big bonuses, taking expensive trips and essentially snubbing their noses at the taxpayer -- is outrageous! Their egregious activities -- perhaps even criminal -- caused most of our current economic situation and continues to by failure to make credit available! Cars would sell if loans were reasonable and available, companies could conduct business if they could continue obtaining credit as necessary for normal operations, and so on.

Everyone hates the big guy ... especially if they have union workers! It is all about stripping the worker of any power or influence and again letting business operate as freely as possible without oversight or balance of control or check.

I don't blame the UAW anymore than management, and think both have been more reasonable than congress. What mistakes UAW may have made were made years ago in different times. Choices that seemed good at the time but have prove unsustainable. What I've seen of the UAW of late has been more than reasonable.

The fundamental problem is demand. There may not be enough demand for 3 U.S. automakers given the number of competitors. This is not just true of the U.S., but the world over. The world just might not need to so many automakers. The question is not should we prop up potentially dying industry, but how do we smoothly transition? I support the former but not the latter. The world changes, and we adapt. Otherwise we might still be supporting the construction of stagecars....

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."

Abraham Lincoln

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Abraham Lincoln would know modern-day Republicans for what they are: traitors against America.

Does anybody know what the average UAW worker makes? It's hard to have an opinion on all of this without knowing! Thanks!

This is depressing. My mom and stepdad -- staunch listeners of Rush Limbaugh who no doubt voted 2x for Bush and now for McCain -- are both auto industry workers who were able to retire at age 55, thanks to their generous UAW benefits. Wonder how they're feeling today?

I'm tired of listening to folks blame the UAW. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Big Three are a model when it comes to employer-paid health benefits. They've been saving the gov't billions each year in health care costs for millions of workers. What's going to happen when all those people suddenly need to be switched to Medicaid?

Sure the wages and other benefits need adjusting, but why should an honest lifetime's work not reward one with some security and decent health care? I don't care what people say about foreign car workers and southern plants. Ask those workers who they'd rather work for. The real issue here is poor management and a lack of foresight that goes back 30 years (if not 50). Don't blame the workers.

They were leaning on the gas as we headed for the cliff and now that we're dangling over the edge, they're pulling back our fingers. In the parlance of one governor at least, these are some committed motherfu*$#rs. Still, as you noted Andrew, the Bush administration did the responsible thing here, which could be taken as the worst of all possible developments: the end must truly be neigh!

What I saw GM do was pre-sell a bunch of business with 6 year, no interest, loans. What that gave them was a bubble, a slump on the downside, and an ongoing interest cost.

How many low down, zero interest, loans do you suppose are defaulting right now?

Management and the unions built themselves into a catch-22. If that wasn't true, they would have had (a) genuine profits, (b) a sustainable model, and (c) growing market share, before the credit crisis.

And free health care. Nationalize all their pensions and increase the social security tax to pay for it. And increase the retirement age of everyone currently working by 5 years to ensure they stay working long enough to pay for the pensioners now. I'm sure there's still some employed middle class people who would happily pay for it.

If auto companies are such a strategic asset then we should be willing to pay whatever it takes to keep it running. I'd be fine with that. I'll just emigrate.

One question I've always had was this: GM is a publicly traded company. Why hasn't the UAW started buying a controlling share? Why don't they do a more orderly, US-flavored version of this:

http://www.newstatesman.com/south-america/2007/08/argentina-workers-movement

The UAW was willing to make concessions, the Repubs weren't willing to compromise on anything. The UAW was willing to drop their salaries to those of non-union auto workers, but they wanted to do it a little more gradually than the repubs wanted so the repubs said, as they always do, "My way or the highway" and "I got mine, lets watch the world burn".

@bearpaw1

Just the union employees. Not management, not suppliers, not dealers.

@odograph

You might want to check what the unions were willing to give up before you run your mouth. They gave the republicans what they wanted, but wanted to do it a little more gradually.