Do any current UAW wmployees make more than the Wall St. whizards who got us into this mes,m and got a bailout? Didn't think so. How long can we keep cutting labor costs on production before nobody is making enogh to buy the products?

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. UAW wages and benefits are ridiculous. True, they are nowhere nearly as ridiculous as the wages we pay the white collar criminals on Wall Street and in the banking industry, but that doesn't mean the UAW doesn't have to bend before the US auto industry can hope to be competitive.

Over the demand by anti-union Southern Republican senators that domestic automaker workers be forced to accept immediate wage cuts, and the loss of benefits.

Frank's comparison is noteworthy, but I'm also curious about a more immediate comparison. Did those Republican Senators demand wage and benefits cuts from all of the employees of those companies, or just the union employees? Were these to be across-the-board cuts, or could they just not bear to think of disappointing the innocent little children of managers and executives during the holiday season?

UAW wages and benefits are ridiculous.

Their's aren't, but your's are. You need a pay cut. Pubs need to gut the minimum wage laws next so they can take you back down to two bucks a day.

After that, Southern lawmakers want to bring back slavery. Got any experience picking cotton, boy?

Why aren't grassroots organizations and online zines like Salon demanding that we all deluge congress with demands to find the missing Iraq War 9 billion dollars and give it to the automakers and to demand immediate investigations into no bid war contracts?

That will fuck up the GOP bigtime.

Do

it.

Jeez Andrew, I thought you were pretty well dialed in.

The problem with "protecting" the unions is that it creates a catch-22. The big-3 cannot compete even with the southern non-union plants as things now stand, let alone imported cars.

Are you really calling for a permanent subsidy?

(I suspect that what we really need from the UAW is unfettered use of robots and automation, rather than further wage reduction - but one thing is certain, prolonging the catch-22 is not a solution)

The big-3 cannot compete even with the southern non-union plants as things now stand, let alone imported cars.

How do you explain the fact that US automakers were making billions until the banks crashed the economy?

You can't.

Go to the bathroom, neocon. You're full of shit.

Using TARP is probably a better idea all around. It's pretty much an "all use" fund and it's a better idea that throwing the money at the just as incompetent fools on Wall Street.

As for the "high" benefits UAW workers receive: The only reason those benefits could be hurting the Big Three is because Toyota/BMW/Mercedes don't have those benefits in their home countries; Japan and Europe are civilized enough to have universal healthcare for their citizens while, in the US of A, we force companies and/or employees to fend for themselves in a vicious and overpriced market-based healthcare system.

Further, the workers at the Toyota/etc. plants in Alabama are substantially worse off than their contemporaries in Michigan Big Three plants because they get cheap or no benefits, don't have a government backstop, and their "right to work" states (what a freaking Orwellian term) won't allow them to collectively negotiate for better healthcare (or a collective voice, for that matter, in anything). The Alabama state government abides with this raping of their citizens so that the politicians -- such as the arse Shelby -- can line their campaign coffers with Toyota money.

The UAW was willing to make concessions, the Repubs weren't willing to compromise on anything. The UAW was willing to drop their salaries to those of non-union auto workers, but they wanted to do it a little more gradually than the repubs wanted so the repubs said, as they always do, "My way or the highway" and "I got mine, lets watch the world burn".

@bearpaw1

Just the union employees. Not management, not suppliers, not dealers.

@odograph

You might want to check what the unions were willing to give up before you run your mouth. They gave the republicans what they wanted, but wanted to do it a little more gradually.

One question I've always had was this: GM is a publicly traded company. Why hasn't the UAW started buying a controlling share? Why don't they do a more orderly, US-flavored version of this:

http://www.newstatesman.com/south-america/2007/08/argentina-workers-movement

And free health care. Nationalize all their pensions and increase the social security tax to pay for it. And increase the retirement age of everyone currently working by 5 years to ensure they stay working long enough to pay for the pensioners now. I'm sure there's still some employed middle class people who would happily pay for it.

If auto companies are such a strategic asset then we should be willing to pay whatever it takes to keep it running. I'd be fine with that. I'll just emigrate.

What I saw GM do was pre-sell a bunch of business with 6 year, no interest, loans. What that gave them was a bubble, a slump on the downside, and an ongoing interest cost.

How many low down, zero interest, loans do you suppose are defaulting right now?

Management and the unions built themselves into a catch-22. If that wasn't true, they would have had (a) genuine profits, (b) a sustainable model, and (c) growing market share, before the credit crisis.

They were leaning on the gas as we headed for the cliff and now that we're dangling over the edge, they're pulling back our fingers. In the parlance of one governor at least, these are some committed motherfu*$#rs. Still, as you noted Andrew, the Bush administration did the responsible thing here, which could be taken as the worst of all possible developments: the end must truly be neigh!

This is depressing. My mom and stepdad -- staunch listeners of Rush Limbaugh who no doubt voted 2x for Bush and now for McCain -- are both auto industry workers who were able to retire at age 55, thanks to their generous UAW benefits. Wonder how they're feeling today?

I'm tired of listening to folks blame the UAW. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Big Three are a model when it comes to employer-paid health benefits. They've been saving the gov't billions each year in health care costs for millions of workers. What's going to happen when all those people suddenly need to be switched to Medicaid?

Sure the wages and other benefits need adjusting, but why should an honest lifetime's work not reward one with some security and decent health care? I don't care what people say about foreign car workers and southern plants. Ask those workers who they'd rather work for. The real issue here is poor management and a lack of foresight that goes back 30 years (if not 50). Don't blame the workers.