I think 1984 was the only book governor W ever read. Unfortunately, he thought it was a religious text.

"He's done more for democracy in Pakistan than any other modern leader has."

He keeps using that word. I do not think it means what he thinks it means.

When they are on our payroll

When he's sitting on a stockpile of nukes. At least, that seems to be the message we're sending to every tinpot dictatorship throughout the world.

My compliments to Alkaline for the quote. I too think it's inconceivable how a complete and utter idiot is allowed to speak, let alone become news.

Freedom is slavery. I think Orwell meant we are all slaves to maintaining our freedoms. Something which obviously the current administration has lost touch with. There have been a huge number of wiser men than You-Know-Who that have well known quotes in regards to freedom, where You-Know-Who will have a huge number of quotes that will go down in history as prime examples of the village idiot.

Everytime I chat with friends overseas, I have to apologize for You-Know-Who. And don't get me wrong, by not using his name I'm not afraid of him, I just don't think he deserves the respect of being called by an actual name.

When he is opposed to the US. Chavez, Morales, Castro, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran....

Don't overthink the Orwell slogan. It just means that the Party wants members and proles to fear and revile individual freedom, so it's equated freedom with slavery. The implication is that only through servitude to the State can one be truly free. It's Orwell demonstrating his concept of doublethink.

"Ignorance is strength" is the really scary one to me, since we see it illustrated on a daily basis. As long as you're not well-informed, it's easy to make tough decisions. Once you stop being ignorant, it's like someone turning down the contrast knob on the world.

To give Musharaf credit for democracy is like saying that my dog's breath is not so bad, compared with other poop-eating hounds. Do you know who the other "modern leaders of Pakistan" have been, though? Bush might have a case, based on the other leaders' ineffectiveness.

Bush is utterly off track when he says things such as this. We cannot let him lead us into his chosen arguments. We need to accuse him and get rid of him for his real failings and crimes.

When he is opposed to the US. Chavez, Morales, Castro, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran....

Let's see:

Chavez and Morales, were elected in free and fair elections.

Castro is a Dictator, While Musharraf is . . .What??

Hamas is a party, that, by the way won the Palestinian Election.

Hezballah is a party and a guerrilla organization: Who do they govern? not Lebanon For sure.

Iran is a country, a theocracy, with elections

You are dumb as they come

except of course, he said exactly what he meant ....

not so funny ...

Everytime I chat with friends overseas, I have to apologize for You-Know-Who. And don't get me wrong, by not using his name I'm not afraid of him, I just don't think he deserves the respect of being called by an actual name.

-- SeanBlader

Agreed. I also refuse, whenever the noxious topic of Shrub comes up in conversation, to use the title "President." He was never legitimately elected and therefore doesn't deserve the respect of the title or a name. Or, for that matter, an official portrait in the White House.

If there is one, it should be hung facing the wall, in some dusty, out-of-the-way side corridor.

Suppose there was an election in Pakistan tomorrow and by some miracle people here could vote based on the impact each candidate had on national security. Suppose the only two candidates were Musharraf and Bhutto.

Would you choose:

a) the military dictator/technocrat who appeared to much applause and glad-handing from American progressives while promoting his book on Jon Stewart who is now suddenly "widely reviled" by the people who applauded him and thought he was cool before, the dictator who accepts huge amounts of our money but who has yet to uproot the Taliban from the Afghan-Pakistan border or keep them from reaching into Afghanistan and killing our troops

or

b) the upper class Harvard graduate who was convicted of money laundering by a Swiss court and has publicly admitted that it was she who originally decided to empower the Taliban to take over Afghanistan because she hoped it would "stabilize" the country -- the same woman who currently flip flops between demanding that Musharraf step down and offering to share power with him in his dictatorship

Of course it should be the people of Pakistan who make this choice. Shame on Musharraf for not letting them.

But I don't see why we have to turn Pakistan politics into a projection of American politics and make Musharraf synonymous with "Bush."

That almost makes it sound like the Democrats are lined up behind Bhutto.

But let's look at Bhutto's record. Money laundering and recognizing the Taliban. And making very loud promises about improving women's rights that were never actually fulfilled.

And what kind of concern did Benazir Bhutto show for the rights of women when she decided to recognize the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan?

Both of theses characters are pretty disappointing. There's no reason why Americans should be impressed with either one of them or feel like either one of them is going to solve all of our problems in that region.

Bhutto helped cause them, Musharraf failed to solve them.

It should be the Pakistani people who make this choice. But if it were up to me, I would not know which one of their sorry asses to pick.

You see -- the world isn't a simple place. Black is not white and white is not black -- but grey does exist.

It's a color children have to learn to see as they grow up.

If the idea of "encouraging democracy" is to try to make other countries into gridlocked two-party republics, I'm opposed.

That said, I could vote either way, because (to paraphrase a previous poster) I don't know anything about what they want to do about life for the general public in Pakistan.

I lean anti-authoritarian, so I'd probably pick Bhutto. But to Musharraf's credit, he's never nuked anyone.