Letters to the Editor

Letters posted here are associated with the following article:
BASIC used to be on every computer a child touched -- but today there's no easy way for kids to get hooked on programming.
The letters thread is now closed.
  • Why Johnny can't code

    The world has always moved from the particular to the general or more specificly from "bottom up' to 'top down'. But I will agree, I learned this by studying computer programming. I am not a programmer but got a Masters in the stuff and spend 4 years in computer sales and saw stuff from a very high level. A lot of it bad I will admit. But back to 'bottom up vs 'top down'. This is controversial at the least. This is simply the calculator problem that math teachers were screeming about years ago and apparently succummed to as I am now reading that we need to stop using the calculator to teach kids math and go back to teaching basics like the singapore math teaching style. But then the math teaching style in our schools seem to waffle back and forth every 20 years or so. Same thing for computer programming. Do they need to learn the low level stuff any more? Abstractions like OOP seem to say not. Because only a very few programmers need to know OOP in its classic style. The rest of the programmers will just use what these OOP programmers wrote for them. A la Visual Basic, Delphi and a host of others. So, I have contradicted myself in this article. 'Bottom up' for the math teaching folks and 'top down' for the computer folks. You be the judge. As I have stated, it is a controversial subject.

  • Johnny Can't Code?

    Can't code? Try getting Johnny (or Jill) to try and make change out of a cash register (and count it back properly) without the help of a computer! Help!

    Great article.... JT

  • Basic Rocks

    I can program in PHP and Java, self taught so I have a lot of bad habits no doubt, but I must admist I still program in Basic, Given that most of my programs do not need (or want) fancy graphics or interfaces, I think that Basic is a great language for programming. I remember writing an accounts and database program for my local newagent that he used for ages, all written in Basic on a Tandy Computer.

    I admit that Basic has problems but dont just write it off because its old, its still a useful language for teaching people the basics (not pun intended).

  • Destruction - Consumption - Hacking - Production - Creation

    It's important to distinguish the trees from the forest. To me, the call for BASIC tools is a mere twig or branch: the broader branch calls for a widely-accepted programming language in which kids can learn to instruct machines.

    (BTW, I thought BASIC was alright -- I coded a payroll package on a C-64 myself, in Nigeria, in the '80s. But many felt Pascal was a better instructional language. I considered pure Prolog the "language of thought". Today, I read of Alice and Squeak as being the lingos du jour. Who cares?)

    But the wider point is indeed that kids don't know where stuff comes from, how stuff works, etc. And it is to these selfsame kids that we are bequeathing the world. My teenage nephew's friend looked up from surfing the Web on my PC, and was astonished that "Jordan" was a country -- that such a country existed. I have a six-year-old step-son who thought beef comes from supermarket packaging. You don't need to learn the saxophone or the tuba -- you can synthesize and sample them, so all you need is some piano-keyboard skills. Or Logic Pro and a mouse.

    And if you don't agree with me that this has linkage with school kids going on the rampage with guns, I give up. WE -- OUR generation -- came up with video games that majored on shoot-em-ups. WE -- adults -- make the films that major in violence. WE -- adults -- leave guns lying around, smoke, do drugs, and such like. WE MAY know the consequences. But the kids don't. Because we teach them -- implicitly, by acts of omission -- that there aren't consequences.

    So: kids aren't interested in antecedents, and they know nothing of consequences.

    We're bringing new generations up to be ignorant, passive consumers. Our fault.

    And we expect them to show respect for elders? Puh-leeze, mister!

  • BUILD THIS FOR YOUR CHILDREN

    So, basically, you're advocating the creation and construction of a "starter" programming language, like Basic.

    But hopefully NOT Basic, because Basic was a bad language that didn't scale well into teaching you concepts that are really important in today's programming.

    But overall I find merit in your proposal! Something small, light, something that will respond from the command line but still be able to scale up to modern concepts. Like your typewriter, primitive, but powerful enough to allow you mind to roam within its capabilities.

    We should do this. OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY - YOU ARE NEGLECTING YOUR ROOTS. YOU OWE IT TO THE FUTURE TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION. BUILD THIS FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

    coherent805@yahoo.com

  • Johnny Should Code in FORTH

    Sir:

    I would highly suggest the following immediate measures to insure your son can code in the future:

    1. A rite of excorcism should be performed to remove all traces of BASIC, Java and C++.

    2. He should fast for at least a month on brown rice and glacier water to purify himself.

    3. Download a copy of "Starting FORTH" by Leo Brodie - a free and legal download.

    4. Download a copy of "Thinking FORTH" also by Brodie - and also free and legal.

    5. Download or purchase a copy of the FORTH programming language - many are public domain.

    6. He should sign an oath to never permit a compiler to think or second guess him and to search zen-like for elegant simple solutions.

    7. Search google and read anything about FORTH's inventor Charles H. Moore - there is no doubt of his genius.

    I have programmed in FORTH for nearly 20 years and can state it is the finest and most fascinating way for a human being to communicate with a computer. Moore's description of the FORTH philosophy:

    "Complexity is wrong. It is wrong in human terms. It is wrong in computer terms. A simple solution is the result of an exacting effort to understand the real problem and is recognized by its compelling sense of rightness".

    Having done these things I am sure your child will grow up to be a wonderful human being like me.