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Saturday, Nov 7, 2009
... much better than BASIC
PYTHON and RUBY are OK too
I think there should be a lingua franca. It should be something clear and simple. It does not have to be BASIC. It shouldn't be BASIC. It should be something that has a hope of being relevant in 10 years. It need not be relevant in 20.
I'm not sure what that language should be, but I rather like Python.
But Python needs a module to handle very simple graphics like you had on the Apple ][.
As for some of the other things you want, you should look into Open Source. One of the biggest advantages of Open Source is that all the code that makes things work is right there. You can tweak it and see what happens to the program. This is one of the reasons the one-laptop-per-child project uses it.
I cut my teeth on BASIC, it's true. But that's just because it's what was there. Even as a child I vastly preferred assembly, Pascal, C and Action! to BASIC. None of those used line numbers. Assembly was much closer to the heart of the machine.
I don't think VB with it's fancy 'enterprisey' programming environment that insulates you from what's actually happening is any good. I don't think C++ with its awesome complexity is any good. I would go for a 'scripting' language. Sure, you can type in a few lines and have the earth move. But you can also type in the little simple programs from a textbook and have them do something on the screen right in front of you.
Why was it so hard to figure out that you needed a Commodore 64? When I read the problem you had, the first thing that came to my mind was "Just get a Commodore 64" (Or other older machine)... History got us to where we are but sometimes people are so quick to poo-poo it because it is "old".
I agree with the sentiments of the article that kids should be learning the guts of programming. But rather than BASIC look at initiatives like Alan Kay's Squeak for teaching children. Teenagers are now inflicted with C++ one of the most horrible trap-riddled languages ever invented. Rather they should be looking at Eiffel, the cleanest and simplest and yet most sophisticated OO language. Lastly, perhaps a look at Wolfram's Mathematica.
We should have moved on from BASIC by now, especially since it is domintated by Microsoft. Apple is certainly better at promoting the computer as an educational device, but you are probably correct that both Apple and Microsoft are guilty of selling boxes (although the worst offender has to be DELL, which makes huge profits and puts nothing back in towards your noble goals).
Ian Joyner
i.joyner@acm.org
Ok.. In order for me to get a Basic interpreter/compiler installed, I:
1. click on System->Administration->Synaptic package manager
2. give my password
3. click on search - use the search term "basic"
4. select bwbasic or yabasic
5. click apply
Synaptic now proceeds with downloading and installing a perfectly ok Basic interpreter.
Does this sound difficult ?
Using google, I quickly found:
- free BASIC interpreter: http://www.freebasic.net/index.php/download
- free emulator that would have saved you from having to buy the C64: http://www.viceteam.org/
- another free BASIC interpreter: http://blassic.org/
Note that "yabasic" (from step 4 - above) is short for "Yet Another BASIC interpreter" - we're hardly talking about a shortage of BASIC interpreters here...
I'm guessing that your problem stems from you searching for an alternative among commerial programs for the Windows platform.
Learning is definately NOT something that you should attempt on the Windows platform. If you want the tools needed to gain knowledge - you need to take a look at the opensource community.
My advice:
1. Go to: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ and order a free bootable Ubuntu CD - alternatively, download it yourself from www.ubuntu.com
2. Install Ubuntu linux - something that nowadays is significantly easier than installing Windows from scratch.
3. Follow steps 1-5 above.
.. the alternative is to have your sons learning process dictated by the the marketing choices made by various SW-producing corporations.
Because he doesn't fucking need to know how to code to have a happy, satisfying life.
Get the fuck over yourself, David Brin.
You are looking for a language that is sytatcially simple, yet powerful and extensible. Python meets this description. We use it to teach n00bs programming at the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics. MIT is designing a new course for beginning programmers that uses Python.
There is a wealth of learning materials and versions of the program you can download at www.python.org. This site also includes a rich array of tutorials and books that cater to all levels of proficiency from n00b to expert. Best of all.... its FREE! You can run python on all the major platforms. If you have a Mac or a Linux box, you probably already have it. Just open a terminal window and type "python". If you don't, python's modest demands can be accomodated even by a fairly old machine.
Python has an interactive feature you can "talk" to. This makes it easy for beginners to fiddle with and fun to explore. Python handles gigantic numbers with aplomb and opens the world of computing with huge numbers to users with all levels of skill and curiosity. Python has a huge array of extensions for programming with graphics and for scientific computing, so it's impossible to outgrow.
Happy Coding!
Look, I know what you are saying about BASIC. I cut my teeth with trash 80s and then VICs and C64 before I ever even touched a PC. My first program was in BASIC. However, here is the thing. BASIC is HORIBLE for programers. Breaking the BASIC habbits are one of the hardest things about learning structured programming.
There is another language that was designed specifically for learning. It is called PASCAL. It shares many traites with C programming and includes higer level concepts suchs as stuctured programming without going overboard.
Your son and yourself would be well served to give it a shot.
P.S. I love your books! More please? =P
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