You can take the approach that "the old way is the only way," or you can try to find the current way to do things.

For the Mac, for example (towards which I am biased), there's shell scripting, awk, perl, python, and AppleScript.  All of these come with the system; several of them have the ability to set down and start doing something.  There are also free BASIC interpreters available, although they're very limited.

For Windows, there's still the DOS interpreter, and you can get VisualBasic.

The ability to get down and poke at the system is still there... but the systems these days have so much more on them that it can be harder to find.  And, in many cases, harder to do anything immediately-gratifying with.

And then there are the other things, that weren't available Way Back When:  the Lego Mindstorms kits, for example, which allow you to do LOGO-like programming with an actual robot that you yourself have constructed, complete with sensory input.  Yes, higher-level than BASIC is, but it's still a way to get kids hooked on the concepts.

But, just because I am obliged to agree with you SOMETIMES :)... where's the equivalent of the Sinclair?  A super-cheap computer, that you can virtuallly immediately start doing things with?  That does appear to be a lost niche.

I was thrilled to read this. I was a substitute computer teacher a few years back, and had I stayed on (the school couldn't guarantee me a job in the fall, so I went back to an office job), I had a whole curriculum based on BASIC.

I learned BASIC when I was in 6th or 7th grade. And when I got to college, one professor praised the language despite its limitations, because it teaches you to think like a programmer. Doesn't matter how simple the program is - you learn how to order your thoughts, break down large tasks into small ones, and small ones into tiny ones. You learn universal truths like "garbage in, garbage out," and "user=idiot". Once you grasp those concepts, learning a more advanced programming language is just a matter of syntax.

And as far as getting the kids interested in learning, you can make your own games. And that's no less of a learning experience than making a database. There's so much potential to do a great curriculum that the kids would like, which would prepare them for more advanced programming, and teach them stuff they would use even if they never touched another computer. BASIC should be right up there with algebra and WWII on the curriculum.

Not only do TIs feature a programming language very similar to Basic, but they also allow easy access to a simple graphics library so that a programming novice can get instant gratification. They're also portable, cheap, and can be used in the classroom.

That's what I started on.

-Jack

Software Engineer

Lets face it, BASIC is dead. And it should be, because it is too limited to do anything useful in todays computing environments. I see your points about how BASIC was a very accisable language for a kid to tinker with and understand how a computer works. I see today's equivalent is writing a web page. My 13 year old cousing wrote her own web page, first in just HTML, then added some client side script (java script) and then added server side script (Visual Basic Script). This was much more interesting and useful to her than making a dot move across a screen, as she could share it with he friends and get instand feedback from her friends. Windows comes with a Visual Basic Script interpreter, anybody can write in VBS and save it to a .vbs file and execute it.

When you make the comparison to a docutor needing to study chemistry, etc, this doesn't apply to the rest of your argument, as this is a requirement for an advanced degree. If you look at a computer science cirriculum, you will see that most universities will require some assebly language, some C or C++ mid level language and some high level language like Java or C#. A lot of them will require students to create an OS or a compiler as well, thus giving the student the full view of how the computer works.

BASIC is obsolete because computers are so complex these days that to write any program that is interesting or useful, a programmer needs to use libraries, functions, and components that they didn't write as part of thier solution. In BASIC, either you have the code, or not -- you can't just call a function from another .dll file that is on the system.

I think the core of the problem is that the computers have changed in a way that you don't understand how to teach them to a kid without the tools you had when you were a kid to pull from.

Apparently Johnny can't Google, either. Browse http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/basic.shtml, Mr. Brin, and pick your poison. If all that thinking is making your head hurt, surf over to http://www.yabasic.de, where you will find what you say you are looking for - a simple BASIC interpreter to use in a Windows environment.

Ironically enough, there are more BASIC products available for the Linux and Unix worlds - which makes sense, as command-line computing is so much more common in those environments.

Jared Hecker

There are indeed, thousands -- at least tens of thousands, possibly more like hundreds of thousands -- doing the EXACT THING that you're complaining about. Kids are ripping apart web pages, web applications, figuring out database algorithms and writing simple scripts to make their own bulletin boards, content management systems, band websites, cool little dohickeys on their myspace pages. Though the mechanism is different, the basics are the same. Flow control, variable manipulation, iteration, functions, boolean algebra... you can't even go all that far without running into basic graph and tree structures.

For people who are into the idea of going further, there have never been more projects available in more languages with more help. I had to save up for computer books, and it'd take me weeks to buy an introduction to programming book that only had a rough chance of being at my level or covering what I was interested in. The internet has completely flipped that idea on its head. Now, if you're interested in learning the basics of computer programming, or what makes a computer tick on a variety of levels, all you need is Google and some time.

It just seems ridiculous to me to bemoan the loss of one, rather limited way of programming, when the doors are open to hundreds of new ways of getting interested in programming.