Oh, come on. A question like this and an answer like this give the appearance of knocking on the McCain downed-pilot claim door to a purple heart. Obama doesn't need to manufacture heroism as McCain does. (Memories are all McCain has.) Let's cut the hypothetics and deal with some truths. I want to hear about issues, not "what ifs."

Your discussion on the MD-80 being not so forgiving and the leads back to tires and math skills for pilots made me remember my check ride with the FAA inspector, who, for me, lived in a trailer next to the gravel strip at Rimrock, Arizona. I flew down in a Cessna 172 and went through the verbals without a hitch, so the inspector said, 'Ok, let's go out and fly. But first, I weigh 230 pounds. Is it ok for both of us to fly in this plane?'

I reached for the nomograph in the manual but he grabbed it from me and said, 'No. Figure it out from the geometry of the plane. Here is the distance from CG to the pilot seating, and here it is for the back seats. go to it.'

He went for coffee and when he came back asked, 'Well?'

I said, 'Yes, it's ok. But (scratching head) you'll have to ride in the back seat!'

Ooofff. I'd made some logical error which I can't now remember. He showed me where I'd gone wrong, we flew, and he signed me off. The day was memorable also for being delayed long enough before I could land for fuel at Sedona by a street sweeper cleaning the runway that I REALLY needed the sagebrush at the rollout end of the runway for an emergency call.

BT - Turin, Italy

>> Isn´t the MD-80 a refurbished DC-9? Or it is newly built as such using an improved DC-9 design?<<

It is technically still a DC-9, but an advanced one. It shares the basic airframe, but has different engines, different avionics, etc. (This was talked about in my earlier column about the Spanair accident.)

>> In the Spainair crash could it be that the flaps were not deployed for take off? <<

That's what they are saying. Flap position is verified at least twice during the pre-departure checklists, and there is also an automatic warning system that notifies the crew if they are not properly set. So how this may have happened, I can't say.

Incidentally, this would be the second major crash of an MD-80 due to improper takeoff flap deployment. See Northwest at Detroit, 1987.

>>And the tower would not see it?<<

Tower personnel are not responsible for such things, and in any case the correct flap position would be very hard to determine from afar.

Patrick Smith

I have always checked out the window for the flaps being deployed, whenever I have a view of the wings, ever since that accident. On one flight (I forget which airline now), they didn't do it until *after* we were lined up on the runway. I then figured out I had no idea what to do if we had started rolling without the flaps deployed! Advice, Patrick?

"It is best to touch down as slowly as possible." And yet you remind us that the MD-80 is a difficult horse at lower speeds, presenting challenges in, for example, crosswind landings. So any control-surface problem might also make maneuability interesting near the ground. Sounds to me like (1) the crew of Obama's MD-80 ought to get a medal; and (2) Democratic candidates need to take a page from their GOP counterparts and fly some other make and model. Of course, the Republicans have all the money there is, so . . .

Using a motor vehicle analogy, I'll take a stab at forgiving and unforgiving.

Using this as a for instance, high speed coming up to a sharp curve in a SUV or a sports car(take your pick). The SUV would be more likely to turn over than the sports car. It would be less forgiving, not necessarily less safe. Due diligence should be applied by the operator.

So, the next time this situation arises and you're digging in your briefcase with one hand, cellphone pinced between shoulder and ear, whilst sipping a cafe latte, I would recommend putting down the cafe latte in the SUV.

"I then figured out I had no idea what to do if we had started rolling without the flaps deployed! Advice, Patrick?"

A plane with left and right engines (port and starboard?):

Do the turbines inside the engines turn in opposite directions, to offset the gyro effect? Usually, this is what they do with twin-prop boats.

And... That poster who noted that boats have rudders just behind the props was onto something. Does this translate to aircraft?

(Soldiers when crossing a bridge are directed to march definitively "out-of-step", so that they do not in any way create resonant vibrations of the bridge, which could lead to the bridge's catastrophic collapse. The total weight of the column of soldiers would surely be very much less than 10% (or even 1%) of the weight of the bridge. The 'resonance' could be deadly...

I believe "The Pilot" is not entirely correct/accurate when he states that it is NOT dangerous for people to jump up and down in a flying aircraft. There would be for sure conditions under which this kind of activity could become very dangerous indeed.

-- GSC

"I then figured out I had no idea what to do if we had started rolling without the flaps deployed! Advice, Patrick?

That is a good question!

I once alerted the flight attendants to an aircraft flying _very_ close to the one we were in (you could see the people in the windows!) that was below and to our left. Distance is notoriously hard to judge in the air, but I'd say it was less than 300 feet away.

After looking out my window, the attendant _ran_ up the short aisle and went into the cockpit, after which we banked rather sharply right, and gained altitude. I'd love to have known if "we" were in the "right" or "wrong", or if it was the other plane screwing up, but I shared no common language with the crew.

On the way out of the aircraft after landing, the same attendant pointed me out to the captain (who was standing in the cockpit doorway waiting) and he shook my hand very warmly. So that was nice.

The lesson I've always taken from that is: if you see something strange, no matter how much of an idiot you might feel, say something to the flight attendants!

And if you're a nervous passenger, and this has made you more nervous, then I'm sorry. It was a while ago, in a relatively small and unsophisticated aircraft, and in a jurisdiction which was, I've been told by people who should know, pretty air traffic control free!