http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2755844//6/

But...but...but... steel-framed structures CAN'T be destroyed by cool-burning jet fuel! My roommate's friend's father's engineering professor's mistress' lover who was once elected dogcatcher in Elbonia told me! Those photes must be faked - faked I tell you.

sPh

sPh,

No, my other points are not covered in detail. Prof Jones' paper (http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html) lays it out much better than I can.

The first key unrefuted point is that there was molten metal at the site weeks after 9/11, so there had to be heat way beyond anything fuel/air can produce.

In addition, nothing explains how an asymmetrically damaged building 7 came down on its own footprint, in the same time it would take to freefall.

It's not necessary for the NIST report engineers to be part of any conspiracy. They may simply have started from the assumption that the official theory is correct. Read prof Jones' objection 12, where he quotes the report where they indicate they tweaked their models heavily until they got the "correct" result.

Something is very rotten. It certainly stinks to me.

First, let me note that I do not remotely believe most of the conspiracies surrounding 9/11. I do, however, believe that very high-up officials knew something was going to happen and did nothing to prevent it so they could enact their Neocon insanity.

For those that think that conspiracies are too difficult because of the number of people involved and eventually someone will talk the easy way to debunk you is this: WMD.

What percentage of Americans thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? 70%? 80%? A small group distorts the facts, cherry picks evidence, uses fear mongering and just flat lies in order to invade an oil rich Arab nation and it works perfectly.

The rest of world, including our allies and the UN, was saying that Saddam had nothing to threaten the US with, but the Cabal managed to get the vast majority of Americans to join their conspiracy.

> The first key unrefuted point is that

> there was molten metal at the site

> weeks after 9/11, so there had to be

> heat way beyond anything fuel/air can

> produce.

Darn! I thought we got the bas#*&d this time. Two whole Ages before he gets out and fires up Mount Doom again. And me fresh out of elves AND hobbits...

Gandalf

Darn! I thought we got the bas#*&d this time.

Not this time... Ha-Haa

To my mind you pounced on the weakest parts of my statements in best debating-club style. But, if we're interested in truth rather than debating points, it's the tougher, core questions which need to be answered first (follow the name link).

That's probably all from me, unless I can't help myself.

There is very little that supports the Egypt Air crash frequently referred in previous posts as an act of terrorism or flight crew suicide. There is a far more plausible technical/ergonomic explanation for this accident. This plane exhibited all the characteristics of a classic "nose-down runaway" of the movable horizontal stabilizer, the flight control surface that provides pitch trim (laymen, read this as "up and down stability").

The flight crew procedure to deal with such a runaway is to activate the two stabilizer trim cutout switches, which are on the center pedestal, just to the right of the two engine fuel switches (read this as "engine on/off" switch). The Boeing 757 and 767 cockpits are almost identical, a successful marketing ploy that enabled a single type rating for pilots - if you could fly one, you could fly the other by just reading a "differences" document in the flight manual. The Egypt Air plane in question was, of course, a 767.

During the early service years of the 757 and 767 (the early '80's), there were several incidents where pilots accidentally shut off an engine fuel switch while groping for something else on the center pedestal. The pedestal's layout made this somewhat easy to do by accident. Shutting off one switch, and losing one engine, is not the end of the world while in flight; you can restart the engine and nobody will probably know the difference, except for the double blinking of the cabin lights and a "bong" from the P.A. as that engine's generator drops off line, then comes back on. The fix was to glue a large, plastic guard between the engine fuel switches, to provide a tactile incentive not to grab both at once, as shutting off both engines is, unfortunately, a big deal. Note it provided only an incentive: it is still physically possible to grab both switches at once.

Runaway stabilizers are not all that common, but they have occurred. It is highly likely this pilot, in trying to deal with the plummeting roller coaster ride the stabilizer trim was causing, remembered what he was taught in the simulator (likely the only other time he had experienced this malfunction), reached down to the pedestal and like a few of his brethren, grabbed the wrong switches, and shut down both engines. The now powerless, mistrimmed aircraft was doomed to its seaward plunge. There was not enough time or altitude to get the engines relit, re-establish hydraulic power for the flight controls and correct the dive caused by the original stabilizer problem. The flight data recorder would tell the exact story in this case, but such data, especially involving a known defect in aircraft design, is usually kept secret by government agencies and the corporations they protect.

I understand their is some controversy as to what the pilots actually said; translations can be subjective. The transcribed statement "pull with me" certainly seems like the plea of someone asking for help while trying to regain control of an aircraft.

Here's some facts and common sense regarding what that Egyptian pilot said just before his Egypt Air flight crashed into the sea:

http://tinyurl.com/rc9wm

What he actually said was "I rely on God (Allah)", but however he chose to put it, there's absolutely nothing remarkable about his having said it under those circumstances. Read the article for a little context.

And as an aside, the most common phrase uttered by English-speaking pilots just prior to crashes is often said to be "Oh shit". I think the Muslim pilots have it right.