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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
I would like to throw two more cents in and explain a bit more about what I referred to as "fundamentalist atheism".
The atheists I am referring to are strict materialists. They believe (yes, believe) that everything can be boiled down to a material event involving chemical/electrical processes. That's fine as far as it goes. But that's just the point: it only goes so far.
These atheists are not saying that they can't determine the source of the universe, they are saying the source of the universe is chemical/electrical processes. They refuse to ask the question, "Where did these processes come from?", "How did they begin?" They have no answer as to the origin of the processes. Period. Yet, they believe they have "the ultimate answer".
That "ultimate answer" is precisely what religion is concerned with. It has nothing to do with an invisible man in the sky (that's among my favorite bits as well!), or elephants on top of turtles--nothing whatsoever! It is simply this: where did this all come from? I don't believe there is a capital 'G' God out there who has some sort of benign will (or malevolent will, for that matter) and called us all into being. I do believe that there is some sort of non-material, or infinite aspect to the universe that we as finite beings can only guess at.
Lynx, I didn't call anyone unintelligent; personal attacks are unnecessary and disrespectful.
George Carlin had a profound influence on stand up comedy. He also was incredibly original and funny .. when he was younger.
Not meaning to offend, and maybe it's too early to say this, but in his later years, Carlin was just not funny at all. I saw him live in Vegas 5 years ago, and it was a sad, sad show.
Anyway. I choose to remember his younger days.
To the many George Carlin fans out there and those who posted in here....DUDES...THIS SUCKS! I hate that he's gone. I hate that there will be no more profound and profoundly funny rifs on all the stupid things we humans say/think/do from the Maestro.
To all the "believers" who are trying their level best to highjack this thread and make it all about your imaginary best friend in the sky...
Just go away...and take your soapbox with you. Let us mourn his death and celebrate his life in our own way...ok?
as George would say...
F*CK!
His bit on Ali being banned from boxing for being a conscientious objector was great too.
"The Government wanted him to kill people. He said: Naw, I’ll beat ‘em up, but I won’t kill ‘em.
So the government said: Well, if you won’t kill ‘em, we won’t let you beat ‘em up. Ha ha ha..."
or words to that effect.
George was the best.
It was good to see the LA Times had a front page story on Carlin's death. I expect we won't see the week-plus outpouring from the media that Russert got, for obvious reasons...yet I would argue that George probably affected a lot more people over the years in a positive way than Mr. Russert ever did. Of course, George was an outsider and Russert was the opposite.
At least they are awarding the Mark Twain prize to George in November.
"These atheists are not saying that they can't determine the source of the universe, they are saying the source of the universe is chemical/electrical processes. They refuse to ask the question, "Where did these processes come from?", "How did they begin?" They have no answer as to the origin of the processes. Period. Yet, they believe they have "the ultimate answer"."
These people, by and large, do not exist.
They're a fantasy of religious types.
The questions you ask above are asked all the time by physicists and philosophers who refuse to accept the easy answer that "God did it." Some of those physicists and philosophers think those questions are fundamentally unanswerable. Others think the answer is not meaningful. (The logic of the anthropic principle suggests that there is no "why" - nothing special about our universe. To suggest otherwise is to shoot an arrow blindly, then draw a target around where it hit and call yourself a marksman.)
The difference is that the we don't conflate the absence of an answer with certainty. That's the realm of faith, not science.
To suggest that someone who calls himself an atheist is uninterested in those questions and yet claims to have the answer to everything is akin to saying that someone who believes that Jesus was the son of god therefore believes that god created the world in six days. The primary difference is that there actually are thousands of people for whom the latter assumption would prove accurate. There aren't for the former.
I have a particularly cherished memory of George Carlin, one because it was the first and only time I ever got to meet him, secondly because I got to share with him how his ideas about atheism had influenced me, and thirdly because I got to make him laugh, which to me was very special. Comedians hear it all, so if you can make one laugh with something original, it means you have the comedic spark.
I was in Las Vegas with my family, celebrating my youngest brother's 21st, and therefore his legality to gamble, birthday. We all went to go see George Carlin together at one of the casinos, I forget which. A couple hours before the show, I happened to see him walking through the casino, in his particular loping gait, and I said hello. We started talking, and I mentioned my religious upbringing, and my eventual lapse into atheism. He mentioned something that brought up the topic of classifying atheism as just another belief system, and I said, "Calling atheism a belief system or religion, is just like trying to call bald a hair color." He laughed out loud at that one, and said to me, "That's pretty good, where'd you come up with that?" I responded with, "I was inspired by a comedian I used to listen to when I was younger." I used to have all of his comedy albums when I was in my teens, I think my parents actually gave me my first one for Christmas. We only spoke for about ten more minutes before he had to go, but I still remember it to this day, and I think his thoughts on the matter are the correct ones.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
