that Hatch ought to be more worried about how the GOP is becoming irrelevant because they won't address the pressing issues of the day because they think their best path back to power is to have the Democrats fail.

He might also want to worry a bit about the party's purging of anyone who is willing to compromise for the better of the nation or that can engage in rational thought and debate.

So support of socialized medicine = diabolical?

Never mind the truth about what we will get in health reform (which will not in ANY way resemble socialized medicine as Hatch thinks of it), what is the connection here? I refer the reader to the Tom The Dancing Bug comic strip Salon ran a few weeks ago.

Hatch may not agree about the value or importance of "socialized" medicine, but to call its proponents diabolical is patently absurd.

For a while now, I've been of the opinion that the GOP is destined to split. I don't see how one party can successfully contain moderates like Crist, Powell, Hutchenson, etc and fanatics like Bachmann, Palin and the Tea Partiers.

Heck... the wingnuts make Hatch look like a reasonable moderate at times.

If Hatch really believes this, then maybe he should consider: Health care reform is a GOOD thing. People want it. People need it. And doggone it, people LIKE it.

So, maybe, just maybe the Republican party is on the wrong side of the issue.

Talk about a DUH!!!

While I was waiting to see my eye doctor Saturday morning I asked the woman who works in the office if she thought we'd see an improvement if healthcare reform passes. I figured it would be interesting to see the reaction from someone who works in the business. "It better," she said. Sixteen years ago he husband was diagnosed with cancer. He's been cancer free for ten years, but will never beable to get insurance through a new provider. She said they luckily avoided bankruptcy because they were able to sell everything they had (house, car, everything) and begin to pay down what their insurance didn't cover. the borrowed to pay the rest. She told me how the insurance company screwed them.

Diabolical isn't too harsh a word for anyone who aims to keep the status quo

The Republicans had a definite plan and made a conscious effort to effectively turn the US government into a one party system in the Bush years.

Of course the GOP's effort depended on a perpetual state of war and fear of terrorists.

Getting elected, serving the people, responding to needs....What is a republican to do in this heinous environment?

PS- minus serious style points for the crappy phrase 'kernel of a point' which has popped up a couple of time in this space.

So support of socialized medicine = diabolical?

No, it's more like:

Enacting popular reforms = diabolical

The disturbing thing is that what Hatch thinks is diabolical is what is supposed to be the entire point of representative government: implementing solutions to societal problems in compliance with the will of the people.

If Democrats succesfully overhaul the healthcare system* (a monumental task with overwhelming public support) and do so despite Republican obstructionism, people will realize how irrelevant the Republican party is.

--

*There's reasonable debate over what methods are best but no honest, informed person believes the status quo is serving us as well as it should.

So according to Hatch, speaking for the pachyderms, passing legislation that people want and for which they will be grateful = "Diabolical". Not that it tells us anything we didn't know about republicans, but it is nice to hear things spoken so openly as they become increasingly unraveled.

Actually he shouldn't be so worried. Republicans were against Medicare, the 40-hour work week, abolition of child labor, workmans's comp, Social Security and so on. And yet the damn party is still around.

"There's a danger that the two-party system will end, because the Republicans suck so much."

Is his argument that, with the advance of socialized medicine people will be forced to vote for democrats because republicans will just gut the system the first chance they get and leave nothing behind to provide healthcare?

Are you sure this guy is working for the republicans?

It is becomeing increasingly clear that that no one is incharge at the GOP.

One hopes that the comming right wing implosion will leave a viable centrist economic conservative party in it's place, but if not, then yes we may have to endure an "era of good feeling" before a legitimate challenge to the democratic hegemony can be formed.

It's funny how every nation with nationalized and socialized health care do infact have vibrant and active conservative parties, that on a regular basis wind up running these governments.

I dont' see why the republicans couldn't do this as well, but Mr. Hatch seems to disagree.

It would help if the GOP actually was willing to compromise or had a viable alternative. The only proposal I've heard from them is more cynical back-door deregulation of the health insurance industry. Their proposal to allow people to buy insurance across state lines would do just that. It would not lead to increased competition. It would allow insurance companies to rent mailboxes in a state with little regulation and reincorporate themselves with that address. That would in turn make it far easier for them to drop people who have high medical bills, so they can die homeless.

I don't like the idea of one party rule, but if that's all the GOP has to offer, good riddance. I'll wait to see what party takes their place.

that viable centrist economic conservative party exists - the democratic party.

" ... you're going to have a very rough time having a two-party system in this country ..."

Poor, poor Orrin. He senses a great disturbance in the status quo.

Well, who said the two-party system was a birthright, mandate or a constitutional privilege in the first place?

I always thought that two political parties representing the aspirations and issues and concerns and fears of 300 million people (well, about 310M now) is pretty absurd. The Republicans sure don't represent me -- and the Democrats certainly don't, either. (Read Glenn Greenwald's frighteningly superb column from yesterday about how the Obama gang -- the "Change You Can Count On" people -- are invoking Cheney's old "state secrets" trick. And this is not a paid plug.)

If there were more voices heard -- and truly represented -- on Capitol Hill, by parties and independents not aligned with either side, perhaps we'd get some of the social and economic reforms we really need.

The Declaration of Independents is coming ...