I realize that the loans given out to some banks and the auto industry are just that, loans, but we are throwing around the "B" word - billions, far too much right now. The omnibus bill, the budget, the stimulus...now another stimulus. Add that too the TARP, and AIG bailouts (yes loans) and Americans are going to wonder where it's all going to come from.

I'm not convinced that we should be throwing more money into the fire right now. Especially when no one is talking about fixing the regulatory loopholes that got us into trouble or how we are going to repair the economic system and tax system for long term stability. Without that, how are you going to pay back all this debt?

Let's just pay everyone in America a million dollars to stay home and channel surf.

I've been trying to wrap my head around all this, seriously, I have.

BUT... I guess the end question for me is: Where did ALL this money go? SOMEBODY is making money off this. Ultimately is ALL this owed to government bond holders? Corporate shareholders of the institutions involved? Grannie with her savings bonds? Charlie Chan in Hong Kong with his US government backed securities?

I mean... really... there's all these BILLIONS... nay... TRILLIONS of dollars just being printed as fast as they can push the paper through the presses and ultimately SOMEBODY is putting it in their pockets and goin' out for a beer.

And... yeah... I'm just overwhelmed by all the different opinions and news and analysis and I really just want one question answered honestly and accurately....

WHERE'S THE MONEY???

This is starting to smell like the mother of all ponzi schemes to me. Is capitalism so unworkable that this is where it ends up? Is this the natural end to the great casino of Wall Street?

Sure.. I understand the supposed function of the stock market - allegedly to raise capital for business expansion. But this just seems like a complete, utter collapse of all the scheming involved that really, ultimately doesn't appear to have any function other than to make a few well connected gamblers so rich that they couldn't possibly spend all the money.

I mean... all this money that is being thrown at this problem HAS TO eventually end up in somebody's pocket, regardless of how that person spends it, or doesn't. Or.. is this just all a big scam? I'm sure I'm just not getting it. I mean... even Krugman, nobel laureate and all, thinks we should spend MORE...

BUT... where's the money going... to who... for what?

Speculators? Gamblers who lost their bets (credit default swaps, anyone?)...

My basic understanding of economics ends at my wallet and whether I have enough for the gas to get to the tavern with enough left over for a beer.

That happens first.

Then another stimulus can be done, but if the bailouts don't get explained, Obama and company will find himself in deep water.

or so I was taught in physics class, but evidently wealth can be created and destroyed based on smoke and mirrors, lies and symbols.

What is obvious to me is that much of the wealth floating around say, five years or so ago, was largely symbolic, that is, value was placed in assets that didn't exist, or weren't worth what everyone wanted them to be worth. Now that this knowledge has become literal, we generate more symbolic wealth to try to replace the vanished symbolic wealth.

How do we generate real wealth (such as home ownership [not "flippership"], freezers and pantries full of wholesome food, clothing made from natural fibers [not petrochemical derivatives] by people paid a living wage to sew them, and vehicles and appliances built to last a long time) that can be used and enjoyed by educated people willing to work hard at sustainable jobs valued by society?

People who want to get rich quick, and for whom rich doesn't ever seem to be rich enough, need to be "returned for regrooving" (to quote Firesign Theater). They need to have a few things explained to them, again or perhaps for the first time, slowly, with simple words, about responsibility.

People who want to get rich quick, and for whom rich doesn't ever seem to be rich enough, need to be "returned for regrooving" (to quote Firesign Theater).

I'm hoping that the fiasco has wiped out the next generation of Wall Street financial "wizards" (or is that "lizards"?) before they developed past larval stage. Maybe we'll have a few years to build the country instead of their bank accounts.

The second stimulus should look at forgiving student loans as a strategy - govt paying off student loans would provide a double bang for the buck - cash flow to the banks and more money in young educated persons' and families' pockets every month, also reduction in personal debt. It certainly would boost the middle class and provide for more consumer spending which increases demand and thus more business investment. What do you think?

For more information on this idea - check out the Care2 petition site - this one currently has more than 30,000 signatures

Who do think builds the roads and bridges? American labor? pish-posh. Find me some Mexicans any day.