If we care, why do we care? When is it time to stop giving these trash-talkers band width?

Anyone, any organization, which supports Gitmo on the basis of patriotism is so sadly misinformed as to be aggressively ignorant. Fear I could understand but pride and patriotism? No. We mustn't care. We must begin to care about different voices.

The question is how do we unhook?

Where did she sign up for the Gitmo tour package?

Why do the righties always assume that every action that they dont initate involving the military is an insult to them. News flash for the GOP:: the US military works for all of america, not just the GOP. I dont blame the soldiers for giving us this hellhole. I think this lawless anti-human unamerican sinkhole is a by-product of the Republican Party. Only the feeble twisted hate filled see any use for prolonged torture.

Does anyone remember habeas corpus?

• Gee, you'd think if the facility were so overly luxurious and hospitable to prisoners at tax-payer expense, conservatives would be interested in shutting it down.

• Gee, you'd think if prisoners were being held in accordance with US and international law, there'd be no reason to hold them just off of U.S. soil in a facility not accountable or reviewable by any national or international standards whatsoever.

...but instead make sure that the name and address of the purported signer adequately reflects your opinion....

Without trials and convictions, it is too easy for people to say that the crimes never happened.

that a person who is ostensibly a trained journalist (or is that assuming too much?) never learned the difference between "proscribe" and "prescribe." And doesn't have the sense to have someone smarter than she is proofread her written statement before releasing it.

You DO know that the majority of the "guests" have not been charged with anything either, right? So by YOUR OWN STANDARD they have done nothing wrong and should not be held in Gitmo in the first place. No charges, no crime, right Melanie?

Sometimes it's just too damn easy with these Wingnut Welfare Queens.

I just don’t get how a right-winger’s mind works:

“The only reason for closing Gitmo is to make leftists and some European countries feel better.” -- No, the reason to close it is because it was opened in order to get around our laws. Habeus Corpus is a fundamental right and in the name of the USA, we have decided that Arabs don’t deserve that right.

“That and they may just truly hate America.” – When in doubt, always repeat this tripe.

“Well I have seen firsthand the conditions in which these dangerous men live.” – As someone has already mentioned, when did she get the tour?

“. . .they have three medical personnel for EACH terrorist.” -– Yeah, that’s so we don’t accidentally kill them during torture. I feel better already, doctor.

“Because NO LAWS WERE BROKEN!” –- BECAUSE DICK & W DECIDED IT WOULD BE HANDY DANDY TO OPEN A PRISON WHERE WE DON’T HAVE TO OBEY U.S. LAWS.

“If Obama foolishly chooses to close Gitmo and ship radical jihadists to America, he is saying that our troops haven’t done their jobs,” –- WFT?

“. . .or worse, that they’ve committed atrocities.” – Let’s pretend this never happened and then it never really happened.

Ask the officers in Iraq, and they'll tell you that the two biggest causes of American fatalities are Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Best recruiting tools Osama bin Laden ever had.

Why hasn't anyone been convicted of crimes at Guantanamo? Well, not for lack of evidence, as Senator Durbin informed us by reading from a first-hand FBI report of the abuses going on there. But of course, this was during the Bush administration, and so the Justice department did nothing except continue to look for ways to bring charges against Democrats on the eve of elections, while Rove and his obedient little bots put out statements calling Durbin a traitor. That's the modus operandi that has gotten us where we are today, and just offhand, I'd say that anything different has to be better.

why hasn’t anybody been charged? Because NO LAWS WERE BROKEN!

Yep. That's the only possible reason. It certainly can't be because the people breaking the laws are the same ones responsible for enforcing the laws.

Still waiting to make a comeback in America.

The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but I for one am not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

[cue Star-Spangled Banner]

There are hyper-ventilated screeds by nutty right wingers all the time but THIS one is notable for its sheer raving lunacy.

May I put this through the spin machine?

Melanie: This radical plan is naïve, dangerous to Americans, counter-productive for national security, and insulting to our troops at Gitmo who exhibit perfect professionalism. We won’t take it lying down.

You folks notice, of course, that if certain 'facts' are expressed strenuously enough, that their intended audience is supposed to take them at face value? And listen Melanie, learn from those hateful lefties: petition drives and letter writing campaigns and just plan prone to the ground tantum throwing gets you nowhere. The people in charge do just as they like nowadays - right or left.

And, Christ Jesus, what ISN'T 'radical' nowadays? The word has lost all of its meaning being bandied about to describe every policy decision we object to.

Melanie: "The only reason for closing Gitmo is to make leftists and some European countries feel better. They have fallen for the tripe that liberals and their cohorts in the media have spread about our troops and the facility. That and they may just truly hate America."

The ONLY reason? Well, if you want to at least give the rest of the world, including those whose 'hearts and minds' we're trying to persuade, the impression we are NOT a torture state, than this little bit of good PR might go some ways toward accomplishing that.

Yes Melanie, we all hate America. Actually, speaking for myself, I just hate torture states. American or otherwise.

Melanie: "Well I have seen firsthand the conditions in which these dangerous men live," blah blah blah.

Oh, brother. Do you know ANYTHING about how this works? You saw what the military there WANTED you to see - the healthiest, most compliant prisoners in scrubbed up shiny cells with happy faced medical personnel right there at their beck and call.

And I love the way you assume that EVERYONE in there is a "terrorist." Well, they wouldn't be there unless they were, right? And tell me, why have quite a number of them committed suicide or attempted to commit suicide if they're being held in a virtual Hilton hotel?

Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/qof5o

Of course there are more stories and references for anyone who cares enough to check. But hey, I'm sure you figure, they're Arabs/Muslims/assorted 'bad men,' so who the hell cares what happens to them, right? Trials? Who needs trials?

And I'm sure the people who were actually released from Gitmo (because they were so blindingly freakin' innocent even by our standards) went back to their home countries and told everyone just how plushy the digs were. Sure. Hearts and minds, baby!

Melanie: "We know that our military brings to justice those who break the law within their ranks. So, if something happened that was so bad in Gitmo, why hasn’t anybody been charged? Because NO LAWS WERE BROKEN!"

We know, we know, we know. Sure we do. Here's the scoop Mel: we bring to 'justice' only the low hanging fruit, you know, the grunts from say, West Virginia, the kind of people you normally wouldn't associate with anyway. THEY get to go to Leavenworth. Karpinsky (a Reservist) gets to retire. Rumsfeld walks away with more corporate board and consultant positions to fatten his bank accounts. Sweet. This is the 'facade' of justice - not anything approaching the real deal.

But as a paid propagandist, you already know that, right?

And 'laws' are quite malleable things as we have seen in this administration. The 'law' in these cases, is whatever the people in charge say it is. We can torture because waterboarding isn't really torture (despite what those Middle-Age era accounts say) AND Alberto Gonzales SAID so! What more proof do you want?

READ: http://tinyurl.com/5rkjd

Melanie: "I am outraged at the lies that have been spread about Gitmo and the work of our troops. If Obama foolishly chooses to close Gitmo and ship radical jihadists to America, he is saying that our troops haven’t done their jobs, or worse, that they’ve committed atrocities. That’s outrageous, but it seems that to him the feelings of left-wingers mean more than America’s safety or the honor of our military."

I'm outraged at your lies but after seven+ years of this I've a case of outrage fatigue. But then again, it's perfectly easy to do what scoundrels have done for years: wrap yourself righteously in Old Glory or the soldiers and call those who oppose you traitors. Our troops, our troops, our troops - such a nice mantra - it covers a lot of sins and lies for the right, doesn't it?

And 'the troops' that you speak of have to remain mute while in uniform or in active duty status because military law bind them to remain so. You might just want to talk to some of 'the troops' that are no longer bound to the regs. Like these men and women:

http://ivaw.org/

Oh, but those 'troops' you'd probably classify as closet lefties who sneaked into the military under false pretenses or they're just downright 'un-American,' right?

Jack Bauer would set 'em right.

And one last thing: closing Gitmo is a PR gesture. Obama isn't just going to set these guys go free - everyone knows that. We have an extensive Federal gulag system here and around the world (just ask the CIA, they know) into which these people will disappear out of sight and out of mind, awaiting their trials which may or may not every occur.

So sleep soundly Melanie and your fellow ravers: that big bad commie man in the White House isn't going to allow the Arab/Muslim/assorted 'bad men' to ravage your exclusive suburban subdivisions and defile your daughters.

But you knew that already, right?