Most independent voters interviewed after the debate are leaning toward McCain. Obama is so full of B.S... Joe the

Plumber knows it; maybe Americans will listen to Joe the Plumber. They certainly can't see past Obama's "silver tongue".

Among independent voters in the CNN poll, Obama won 57-31

The anecdotal test has an unknown error. But the CBS poll has an error margin of + or - 3.9 percentage points.

He should be giving short, superious (made-up good word) responses. Rather than boring wonky silly details. He may bore us into an Obama defeat. Yikes!

To me, John McCain came off in tonight's third presidential debate as even more pathetic and desperate than he did in the first two debates.

I guess even McCain sees the writing on the wall, however, and is angling to get a job on some cable network after the election as the health reporter for his age cohort. Maybe at his remaining campaign events or in his ads he could further hone his skills by giving folks an update on who has passed away recently or who is in the hospital.

The constant non-contextual smiling was not only creepy but I though really hurt McCain in the 'looking presidential' dept. Especially compared with Obama's sober serious demeanor.

And the blinking! Average person blinks once every 2 seconds, McCain was in REM state. All it made me think while looking at him was: He's lying.

Joe the plummer is all backed up and full of shit.

I think McCain's constant and pointless targeting of his base combined with the ridiculous comment about ACORN threatening the fabric of America all points to the RNC preparing to de-legitimize an Obama presidency as soon as they can as ugly as they can. Look for the lawsuits to start from the McCain camp once Obama is ratified the winner.

I thought Bush's signal receiver back bulge was unbelievable during the last election's debates, so I was actually pretty surprised tonight that the GOP operatives boldly decided to "hide" McCain's in his left jowl.

For McCain pretending he cares about families hurting in this economy, when he owns 7 houses and live in luxry; For McCain talking about chidren and women, when he fire bombed them, dropped napalm and asian orange on them. His compassion sounds fake. He is a professional politican after 27 years in the senate and now he talks about making changes, when he is 72 years old???

I agree with your sentiments. However, I believe what got dropped on the Vietnam countryside wasn't fruit, but the defoliant Agent Orange. In any case, dropping stuff willy-nilly on non-combatants is bad manners. McCain should be ashamed.

Cheers.

What's most amazing about this is that in spite of the widespread evidence to the contrary, Republicans think McCain won because he was so aggressive. Seriously, read The Corner. They think that every time he's a dick about Ayers or ACORN an angel gets their wings.

Weirdly, only Ramesh Ponnuru is willing to admit the obvious defeat.

And we wonder why McCain seems out of touch?

We did a (completely unscientific) count at my house, and I counted McCain blinking 127 times/minute between 7:29 and 7:30 during his final remarks. Oy!

Obama was the credible one again, while McCain was a man tense indeed. Worked his jaw muscles like he couldn't contain his disdain. John may have forgotten...this was a debate, not a personal vendetta.

However, I guess I was more curious about the guy named Joe. That's the second Joe hangin' around the McCain/Palin stables. First was Joe Six-pack touted by Sarah. The other, Joe the Plumber supported by John.

I do wonder if on this good night of debatable challenges, both 'Joes' agree to sit down together to listen to the debate...and if Joe A shared his six-pack with Joe B, the Plumber...how many bottles did it take to clean the drain of McCain/Palin?

Ohiopolitico, couldn't you even come up with an interesting, not-so-easily-debunked lie?

"But the Republicans Think McCain Won..."

I'm convinced that this is due to the different standards used by the Right and Left to determine who the winner of an argument is:

1) To people on the Left (or in the middle), one wins by making more direct salient points relating to the issue at hand that one's opponent.

2) To people on the Right, one wins by screaming louder and getting angrier (and/or simply saying "USA" or "America" as often as possible) than one's opponent.

McCain's disdain for Obama was on clear display, therefore, the Right interpreted McCain's performance as a clear victory.

Obama's calm and measured responses to McCain's and the moderator's questions were viewed as the path to victory by people living in the real world.

How great is that to have a candidate in the general election mention the murders of labor organizers in Columbia? Could it be, we'll have a president who absorbs some liberal (real, not corporate) media? Obama's a Salon reader maybe? McCain seemed just short of breaking out in mocking laughter that Obama would care about human rights. I suspect that is actually McCain's attitude.

Here's the real deal on Joe the Plumber:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/02217/845/591/632001

Not exactly what he said he was ...

So, speaking of John McCain's feeble arguments, the Joe the Plumber story -- stinks.

Obama didn't hit the point about how McCain's campaign has revolved around Ayers nearly hard enough. He did say, "I think it says more about your campaign than me," but he really could've been a bit more energetic there.

All of America has seen/heard TONS of crap about Ayers over the past 6 weeks. Just pointing out that *that* is the "issue" the McCain campaign has been emphasizing while the economy tanks should've been crippling.

And Joe the Plumber was a shill. Couric talked to him (the "real" Joe) on the webcast after the debate, and he sounded like a McCain campaign operative. He sounded as if he was more concerned about Obama's tax increases than anything, and when Couric asked him if he made over $250K a year, he said (paraphrased), "I could sometime in the future, and anyway, it's a slippery slope. He says $250K is rich now, but tomorrow he could say $100K is rich."

It was quite a stretch. He pretended that there's no significant difference between what he was arguing against and what Obama has actually promised.

Finally, waiting patiently for the opportunity to deliver his zinger, he said he hadn't met McCain, but he met Obama walking around his neighborhood. He went to ask him "tough questions," and expected a "tap-dance" rather than a straight answer. He said "Obama was a good tap-dancer, better than Sammy Davis, Jr."

Talk about code words. Jeez, what an asshole.

Hey, Joe? Fuck you, pal.