He is no more a progressive than Hillary Clinton. He is less so.

His war vote rational was much more hawkish than hers. He is as allied with AIPAC-type interests as she is.

Did you read the link that maureenodonnell gave? Biden is no liberal and no more deserving to be VP than Clinton -- not that I really think she wanted that position.

Have you read what Glenn Greenwald has to say today on Biden and how much an establishment pol he is?

I have nothing against Biden but to argue on the basis of policy and voting record that Biden is somehow more worthy than Clinton would be a pretty lame argument.

Certainly Barack Obama may be more comfortable with him and I do not begrudge him that consideration.

However, if Barack Obama really wants Clinton female voters, maybe he'd better do something quick to reach out them rather than pandering to working class white male voters.

His choice. His consequences.

However, it is perhaps because I did not make myself clear enough that you are still misunderstanding me.

1. I think feminism should be a part of progressivism. For instance, honest progressives should consider discrimination against women with the same degree of disgust that that they now seem to reserve for discrimination based upon race.

2. I don't think feminism has left the progressive cause at all. I think progressivism deserted feminism -- otherwise, the DNC would have been as vocal about calling out the media for their sexist attacks upon Senator Clinton as feminists supporting Senator Clinton were.

3. When rights conflict -- and they sometimes do -- there is no reason that women should privilege progressivism above feminism.

4. Feminism should be part of progressivism but should not be subsumed or subjugated to other causes under the progressive umbrella.

For instance, the disabled have their rights and should certainly fight for them. Of course people with moderate to severe mental retardation should not be held as responsible for their crimes as people of higher IQ since they cannot always understand either consequences or abstract ideas such as justice. (In fact, no one should be executed ever. But tell that to Barack Obama who wants to execute child molesters.)

People of color have their right not to suffer discrimination in education or the job market due to their color.

Women should have their right not to suffer discrimination in the job market due to their sex. Yet they do.

Why is not Pay Equity and equal pay for work of comparable value not fought for constantly in our Democratic Congress? It is a travesty but it is not even seriously considered? This is only one of many instances in which the rights of women are not considered important.

Over and over in these threads at Salon where progressives offer their opinions, there were attacks upon Senator Clinton that could only be construed as based upon her sex. Yet (usually) only her supporters defended her. Other progressives were silent and therefore complicit.

For instance, I do not recall you being outraged at Shuster comment that Hillary was "pimping" out Chelsea. If I am mistaken please correct me.

Also, constant conflation of Hillary Clinton's opinions with those of her husband and his of hers are sexist. Yes compare them on policy where one can prove their policies intersect, but where one cannot, it is not fair to assume that they are the same.

The blame heaped upon Clinton for staying with her husband for cheating on her and the criticism of the advantages she gained by being married to a powerful man are sexist. If no one ever married anyone with more money or power or personal advantages than they, no one would ever marry. To assume that any women married to a richer or more powerful man is doing the political equivalent of "golddigging" is sexist.

The use of the term Billary is sexist.

Also, those who attack Hillary Clinton for everything Bill Clinton has ever done are sexist.

For instance, Hillary Clinton never signed order to have anyone executed or never had the power to commute or pardon anyone's sentence. She was never governor of Arkansas. To imply otherwise is to engage in sexism.

Are you getting the picture, my dear?

So-called progressives in these threads have approved the use of sexism by complicity and have practiced the same themselves by being overzealous to attack "the Clintons" to the point where any sexist attack on her was tolerated as long as it was assumed that it advantaged their candidate.

No, this will not be forgotten. Progressives became sexists, and thus they stuck feminism and women in the back of the bus.

Working class women, moderate women, religious women, less-educated women are still women with a right to their opinions and no less worthy of having sexist attacks upon them condemned than ... Nancy Pelosi or Michelle Obama.

You should have spoken out on behalf of these women.

Did you?

Too many priviledged liberal feminists proved in this election what they have always been charged with: That they are elitists.

AKA Smith, I'm sorry that I did apparently misunderstand one of your posts. I must have read too hastily.

Regarding feminism and progressivism, I don't want to be part of feminist politics that are not progressive. Liberal (as opposed to radical) feminists don't do it for me, thus my Kucinich support. There has been and will of course be every kind of feminist, and we will continue to vehemently disagree with each other on a range of issues.

Returning to the subject at hand (it's Biden), possibly to clarify what I was objecting to here, if I lived in a state that was not solidly, unalterably Democratic, I would only vote for the Dem ticket, whether it was Obama and Clinton, Clinton and Obama, or Clinton and Biden, regardless of my real, substantial progressive objections to all of these candidates. There are no messiahs here. With soldiers and civilians dying in Iraq every day, how could progressives do anything else?

Do I plan to be very critical of Obama and Biden as candidates and, hopefully, executive office holders? Yes, absolutely. And I already have been, replying to the message I received "from" Joe Biden earlier in the day.