"I know, as well, that there is a certain number of former Obama supporters who wish they had an alternative to either McCain or Obama now that he has shown his colors with his 'new' positions on FISA, gun control, abortion, and patriotism."

You have every right to complain about Obama's flip flop on FISA - it was indefensible. However, for folks like you and Joan Walsh to cry about Obama's positions on gun control and abortion (or in her case, healthcare) strikes me as either disingenuous or incredibly naive. Obama's positions on these issues haven't changed at all and you only have yourself to blame for just now waking up to the fact that he's more a pragmatist than a liberal. Had you been paying better attention for this past year, these positions wouldn't be a surprise.

I had no idea Obama has an official position on patriotism. Is he pro or con?

What are the housing prices around Langley these days?

Because they have, more or less, one agenda. Democrats are comprised of people and groups with multiple agendas - and a willingness to hold things up until their cause is acknowledged.

The best we can do is find a candidate who embodies MOST of our ideals and who probably won't do things we abhor, like start stupid wars. Beyond that, you're living in a dream world if you think holding out for your perfect candidate will make things better - it'll only make it easier for the other party.

As it happens, we Democrats had two ground-breaking candidates and we should be enormously proud at having accomplished that. Either of these candidates would be an excellent choice, but we can't have both and those whose candidate did not win should just suck it up and remember that the ultimate goal is to NOT LET THE REPUBLICANS WIN!

MLW

There may be a very, very small number of people who believe that Clinton could somehow pull off an upset victory, but that isn't what the roll call is about. You're a man, aren't you? (Alex can be either gender). I think that these women simply want Clinton's "historic" run to be acknowledged. Women think that way about recognition, empowerment. A lot of women (and men, for that matter) who voted for Clinton would like to see their votes acknowledged. Is it really asking for so much to see the name of the candidate who garnered nearly half of the vote actually voted on formally? It would be a wonderful moment, not just for Clinton supporter's but for the Democratic Party, to have a roll call that includes candidates whose race/gender represent 55% of the populate instead of 25%.

The Obama people suggested that Clinton felt "entitled" to the candidacy, even as they pressured her to drop out so that Obama could take his rightful place (that's irony, folks). Now, who is acting entitled? Obama will win. There is no question of that. Does Clinton have to simply be dismissed, yet again?

"These protesters will be in cages outside the convention where they belong."

Let's hear it for UNITY!!!!!

If there's no fear of Clinton winning the roll call, why not just go ahead and do it? It won't take that much time and with the final result nearly equal, Clinton does deserve that respect.

And there is no question, considering the loud and often crude mouths of Obama diehards, that a huge outcry would have come, not just from those folks but the Obama campaign itself, had the party leadership pushed Clinton into the nomination rather than pressuring SDs to push Obama over the finish line, and then refused the roll call vote for Obama.

They were whining from Feb. on about how the SDs might choose Clinton even if Obama won the popular vote or the most pledged delegates. There was actually no possibility of that scenario happening, since the party establishment, the old-time Washington insider party leadership machine, had decided to put Obama in the nomination, period. Obama knew that and he still floated that fantasy, which his supporters loudly cried out for all those months.

And then in the final circumstance, it was the establishment, the old Democratic party leadership machine, that put him into power as the nominee. It was the exact revers of what he floated, and he knew all along that it would be that way.

The real outsider was and is Clinton. There was no Clinton machine, only the Washington insider right of center machine, and they wanted Obama and they put him in power. Period. The Clinton machine meme was a diversion, not a reality.

So I think the real bottom line of this issue is the fear that Clinton would win the roll call. There is no other reasonable explanation for this refusal to give her and her supporters the respect they deserve with this small final gift to her candidacy.

Clinton gave a classy concession speech. She asked her supporters to put their full weight behind Obama.

Ironically, the delusional, full-throated, screaming imbeciles who shouted sexism when Obama pulled out Her chair at a debate are now the ones behaving in a sexist manner.

No means no, people. She said she conceded. She said let's get a Dem in the whitehouse. But you can see that she doesn't really mean it, right? You can see it in her eyes. She's Dominique Francon, so perturbed by her own greatness that she could never willingly submit, but must be taken by force.

Wow. Just. Wow.

For Gawd's sake, let it go !!

I think that these women simply want Clinton's "historic" run to be acknowledged. Women think that way about recognition, empowerment. A lot of women (and men, for that matter) who voted for Clinton would like to see their votes acknowledged. Is it really asking for so much to see the name of the candidate who garnered nearly half of the vote actually voted on formally? It would be a wonderful moment, not just for Clinton supporter's but for the Democratic Party, to have a roll call that includes candidates whose race/gender represent 55% of the populate instead of 25%.

Just because she's female, she should get special treatment at the convention that no man has ever gotten? And you think that's a good idea for feminism?

It's muddle-headed thinking like this that has set back the cause of feminism a few decades during this campaign. Are women equal to men? Then Hillary should behave like every other candidate, endorse, and not have some special ceremony created just for her (which is exactly what she will do), and so should her supporters.

Also, your argument is flawed. The people running the show are calling for the delegates to, "vote their conscience," which shows that they severely mentally unbalanced, and are trying to pull off a win, not just get some pretty little ceremony for the poor little put upon girl.