Hillary Clinton broke her campaign financially by running and running in the primary season. As an Obama supporter, I can tell you that she cost us a lot of money battling her long after the nominee was decided. Hillary has had her say in the 20-something debates and on the stump.

Now it is time to move on.

C'mon Salon. Give us the ole one-two combo.

MSNBC is watching, Joan. Don't let them down!

So now Puma and the No Deal Coaltion of right wingers are being joined by another group of poor losers. Clinton Lost. In fact she the election in March. She never caught up in pledged delegates after that.

These protesters will be in cages outside the convention where they belong.

Hillary is notgoing to be the nominee, and she is not going to be VP. Obama has already told some of Hillary's big fund raisers Hillary will not be VP. Why? Bill won't vet. Bill has too many questionable financial backers for his library and foundation.

Did you ever consider Hillary doe snot want to be VP?

then why do you all care if her name gets said or not?

I agree with you...I don't believe she really wants a VP slot. I think that if she really felt 'needed' then she might go for it, but she is, more than likely, positioning herself for the possibility of 2012 run.

It isn't just Clinton die-hards that think her name should be entered into nomination at the convention. I wasn't even a Clinton supporter and I think they should call the roll.

We had a historic primary where the Democratic Party ultimately chose between a black man and a woman to lead the ticket this fall. They both deserve some recognition. And there is also the whole "coming together" thing. You don't think that the real die-hard Clinton supporters, people Obama needs if he is to win in November, are going to be more than a little ticked off if their favorite candidate is not at least entered into nomination?

For me, it doesn't really matter. I won't be voting for Obama regardless. But if Obama wants to win, he and the convention planners would be well advised to give Clinton her due.

I still don't think it will really serve any useful purpose, and it goes against everything they do at conventions over the last few decades, but, after seeing the comment from bernbart about the protesters being put in cages outside the convention, I figure, what the hell, let them speak and have the roll call. It will annoy bernbart.

Bernbart, should they get a warrant before locking them up, or is your permission all that's necessary?

To embarrass Clinton when she loses, again?

"Unity through Ignorance. Ignorance through Arrogance."

I was just saying I wasn't arguing for Hillary to get a full vote at the convention, the issue in this post. Nor was I arguing that she shouldn't.

I mentioned the popular vote because it was something that Obama supporters talked about quite a bit, until the time it became clear that he hadn't won it.

I should have been careful to qualify that - he didn't win the popular vote, and Hillary got more votes than he did. But it was very close and the totals need an asterisk because Obama was not on the Michigan ballot. The fairest way to say it is probably that it was a tie - in any case, he wasn't the overwhelming popular choice that Obama supporters and the mainstream media made him out to be (and still do, largely).

I did vote for Hillary and I wasn't intending to conceal that, but I think Obama ran a better campaign and deserved to win the nomination, which is not saying anything about who I think is a better general election candidate or would make a better President.

My point: this article makes the historical precedent argument, only because that's the argument where Obama supporters come out on top. If roles were reversed you can be damn sure that Obama supporters would be making the fairness argument, again because that's where Obama comes out on top. I am against faulty reasoning more than I'm for or against any candidate.

Good points. Well worded!

what utter egomaniacal tripe. what are these hard core shrews selling at their concession stand? Emasculated hot dogs? Hillary withdrew gracefully. She conceded. Look up the goddamned word. It's over. She'll get a prime time speech slot, which she has more than earned. She might even get a VP slot, although I think that would be a major strategic error. Sod off, the lot of you.

The real Clinton die-hards are not her women, but her rich, bi-coastal Jewish supporters who are terrified of Obama for Israel's sake. While liberal socially, these donors are the Democrats' answer to neocons on Israel, which is the most important of all political issues for them, as it is for the neocons and AIPAC. Ever since Likud was freaked out by Carter, their agents in America, the neocons of both parties, have been determined to control American policy towards Israel through campaign contributions. Both Hillary and McCain are in the tank for Israel because of Jewish donors. Obama made an end-run around these donors by going to the Net for the main source of his huge war chest. So he's a frighteningly free agent on Israel, as far as the neocons of both parties are concerned. (Lanny Davis is the media face for these pro-Israel fanatics in the Clinton camp; no wonder he's working now for Fox.) So Obama must be stopped at all cost. The Dem neocons will use "women" as the facade they'll hide behind in their machinations to take the nomination away from Obama. But it's Israel, not feminism, that the hardcore Hillaryites cares about most. Beyond Israel, Hillary's rich Jewish supporters are threatened with a huge loss of power and status in the political process if Obama's in the White House. It's parallel to the threat to people in the old Civil Rights Establishment posed by Obama. Everyone who has opposed the neocon-driven Bush proxy war for Israel in Iraq, and who opposes Israel and Bush's (and Hillary and McCain's) longing to "obliterate" Iran with bombs, should do all he or she can to stop HIllary's die-hard Jewish supporters, since Obama is the only hope for a peaceful settlement with Iran which will not throw the whole world into depression because of doubled or tripled oil prices which would come from bombing Iran.