But when Petraeus announced the troops were to be reduced to pre-surge levels by a certain date, a while back, was THAT a timetable? There's nothing wrong with bringing troops back, and McCain, nor Bush for that matter, will argue with that.

But sure, in the parts of Iraq that are safe and secure and will not fall to the Shiite militias easily, bring those troops back. That's what's going to happen in September when Petraues does his next report anyways. McCain will try to take credit by saying the surge worked, and Obama will try to take credit by saying the "pressure" he and Congress have put on Bush worked. EVERYONE WINS, and everyone's political careers are lengthened!

next we're going to read that the courts have put the lie to the new FISA bill, but Obama's already ceded his formerly strong, centrist position on that one. Oh wait-that was last week.

There's more gallows around here somewhere. Now sit down and shut up.

"Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's startling call yesterday for a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops from his country has been slow to draw the kind of attention here that it deserves. Perhaps that's because his announcement was made in the context of complex negotiations over a temporary authorization for the continued U.S. presence in Iraq, and perhaps it's because the precise meaning of "timetable" isn't yet clear."

Or perhaps it's because:

1. The American media are generally incompetent and lazy, and much more concerned with "issues" such as imagined slurs on McCain's patriotism; or

2. The American media realize that Iraq's call for a withdrawal timetable makes their boy Johnny Mac look bad.

I think it's mostly the former, with a dash of the latter.

And here's an interesting update:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

"Iraq insists on withdrawal timetable

BAGHDAD - Iraq's national security adviser said Tuesday his country will not accept any security deal with the United States unless it contains specific dates for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces."

Whatever the two candidates spin out of this - it is BS - and the net result is the same. We will have a presence in Iraq for as long as we can get away with it. How many troops do we have stationed around the world? And McCain or Obama are going to give up our military presence on the biggest, richest oil reserve in the world?

If you believe that, boxes of "change" buttons are going at 50% off. Get'im while they're hot.

How is that a double-bind for the surge enthusiasts? It seems that it's win-win for them -- if we're pulling out either way, they can claim that it worked.

Is to not let Iran dominate Iraq.............In other words we aren't leaving. Ever.

is currently, uh, refining his stance on pulling out the troops. Certain elements of the liberal media (e.g. George Packer's most recent piece in The New Yorker) are beginning to pave the way for the concept that, during an Obama administration, pulling all the troops out is not such a good idea after all. Those who fancied that he promised to do so and should keep his promise are now termed "idealistic," which is to say, not up to dealing with the hard realities of the situation in Iraq. Only elite elements of the government and the press are able to do that, you understand. Contrary to Kilgore's piece, we are now being told that things are going pretty well in Iraq now which means we must stay there until...well, they don't say when it'd be OK to leave.

This is predictable as the sunrise. Obama, if he's elected, will pull some troops out, but four years from now, we'll still have a substantial force (my guess is 25k troops at least) in Iraq on a permanent basis (as in Korea). The reports before the war about plans for permanent bases in Iraq were correct and neither Obama, McCain nor anyone else is going to change that.

In the meantime, Obama and the liberal press will continue to "educate" liberal Americans about the impossibility/inadvisability of doing what he was elected to do.

Make book on it.

is that George Packer was for the invasion prior to March 2003. So, his thinking that hanging around is OK is not a surprise.

click on my sig for link

or as they title it:

Baghdad Burning

A U.S. attack on Iraqi bankers puts a damper on talks about the future status of American forces.

The U.S. military issued a press release the day of the shooting. It said troops from the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division, were stopped on the roadside when "criminals" traveling the road fired on them. When the soldiers fired back, the statement said, the car crashed against a wall and "exploded." Two of the U.S. vehicles had bullet holes and a weapon was found in the burned car according to the military.

The statement provokes anger from Hafd Abood's friends and relatives and, at the very least, leaves many questions unanswered. Those killed were all longtime bank workers on their usual morning commute. The spot where the shooting occurred is supposed to be one of the safest in Iraq. ....

Airport police, who spoke to NEWSWEEK on the condition they not be named, said they believe that Hafd Abood was unarmed, having successfully passed through checkpoints that include a bomb-sniffing dog. Their theory is that he was about 30 yards from the parked soldiers when he swerved in their direction to avoid a large pothole. Another motorist, refusing to be identified because of the intense attention the case is receiving, told NEWSWEEK that the soldiers fired into his hood to keep him away from where they were positioned, apparently after they had already shot Hafd Abood's car.

I guess they haven't forgiven or forgotten the "American Justice" demonstrated wrt Haditha.

I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding. Maliki cannot risk the US pulling out. We are the only thing propping up his govt. He is preaching to his base, the Iraqi people. It means nothing, Bush does not recongnize the Iraqi people as having a say in Iraq. After all, to the winner go the spoils as in oils. Iraq is our 51st state and Obama is determined to keep it that way. When you look at your 5 year old son, parents, just picture him in his Army dress uniform with the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis splattered all over it. That is your son's future. Is this a great country, or what?