Letters to the Editor
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It's unfortunate
It seems that history is going to be the only source of judgment for these people. Impeachment is still "off the table".
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No GWB?
Where was the president during these discussions? Trying on his flight suit? Clearing brush? Making videos with Barney?
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I'd rather not say
Plausible deniability.
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It's time for an independent investigation
We don't have the Independent Counsels anymore, but if there was ever a situation that called for one, this is it. The country and the world need to know the exact level of responsibility for each person.
Then we can start prosecuting.
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Family Values
This is why the US is diminshied in the eyes of the world- no better than some third rate dictatorship. They need to turn of the Jack Bauer "24" mentality..these are people they are torturing not cartoon characters. Where oh where is the MSM on this one. If it occured in _________ (pick a country) or involved Britney Spears they would be all over it
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No impeachment? No votes for democrats!
If Pelosi, Clinton and Obama support , facilitate and cover up torture, why should anyone vote for a Democrat unless one approves of torture as well.
I thought Nazis were supposed to be the bad guys?
WELL?
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Pre-emptive pardons and prosecution
I assume that Bush will hand out pre-emptive pardons, of the sort Ford gave Nixon. I wonder if that will prevent criminal prosecution after these evil people leave office.
You know, there is quite an irony that Ashcroft keeps coming up as the decent constitutionalist.
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History is dead
According to one top official, Ashcroft reportedly asked aloud after one meeting, "Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly."
JackSparx already commented on this, but I had the same view -- you know you're in deep, deep shit when John Ashcroft is your moral avatar.
I'm sure the Bush League just figured they'll keep everything confidential for 50 years or so, or just "lose" relevant documents, flush it down the memory hole, and it won't even matter. They don't care. All power to the Executive! Power creates its own reality.
What's scarier to me is the creation of a new profession -- the extralegal professional -- whose job it is to cobble together legal theory to justify illegality, to craft precedent out of the unprecedented, to sanction what should be impeachable. The legal whores who surround this rogue administration are really, really something. They've managed to kill this country with a stroke of a pen -- it's just the country doesn't realize it's dead, yet.
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Does anything ever really change?
One should not be too surprised that torture was decided upon by these unprincipled Principals. Given America's relationship with blacks and Native Americans, seen as the "others," inhumane tactics could be used against Arab prisoners or those deemed a "terrorist."
To note, see the link below and scroll down and view the stress position that was used against a black prisoner in Alabama. This photo is from a book that detailed how new forms of servitude were being used against blacks in the aftermath of slavery.
What's distressing is that blacks such as Powell and Rice were also the Principals that may have sanctioned such treatment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/books/10masl.html
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No surprises here.
That impeachment was "taken off the table" by the Dems only reinforces my contention that they too are complicit and are no better than the German proximal leadership and the "look the other way" civilians who watched with hands wriggling as the box cars rolled by. Let me continue my point here.
The policies of these dastardly individuals were by no mean relegated only to torture of "prized suspects" but must include the out-and-out slaughter of innocent civilians from Shock&Awe all the way to the slaughter that continues even today as neighborhoods in Iraq are cluster bombed to snag a few "dead-enders". This sick government will never be held accountable for these war crimes. I am ashamed to be a part of this country's "look the other way" compliance to these horrific acts. Pelosi and Ried and Co. are in on this up to their sorry necks. Shame on them. Shame on us.
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It's okay though
because it's only for brown people with funny names who might not like America all that much and may have done something bad.
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the ICC and national immunity
My understanding of the ICC is that it is constrained by agreements not to prosecute Americans. While the US hasn't been able to get exemptions from the UN since Abu Ghraib, I think there are many bilateral agreements with individual countries who would otherwise be inclined to prosecute non-US war criminals. However there's a clause in the prosecution of war crimes that bears repeating here, from the ICC FAQ: "The jurisdiction of the ICC will be complementary to national courts, which means that the Court will only act when countries themselves are unable or unwilling to investigate or prosecute."
I read recently that by immunizing Americans nationally, the Congress with the Military Commissions Act and any Presidential pardons, it might open up the individuals "pardoned" to prosecution internationally. So those guys would have to be very careful where they traveled, and certainly any number of countries could simply change their minds about letting them get away with what they have done.
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Truer Words were Never Spoken
Slackie Onassis said: 'you know you're in deep, deep shit when John Ashcroft is your moral avatar.'
His/her post needs a red star, IMO.
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@Awesome I'd like to buy a vacation for Yoo in Sweden!
Or whatever country will prosecute him.
I'd rather he serve his time in Syria or Gitmo, though.
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We've engaged in torture far longer than this
These "Principals" have their spiritual antecedents in the instructors and manuals used at the School of the Americas (officially the "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation") in Ft. Benning, GA. There we have trained Latin American military thugs to do just these sorts of things for years and years.
It is important in placing the blame for our current torture regime that we not stop at Bush & Co. They did not come up with all this on their own. We already knew how, have trained others in the techniques, and have seen them applied by our "allies" in Latin America. It is not for nothing that the neocons have been calling for the "El Salvador Option" to be applied in Iraq.