Letters to the Editor
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SCREAMING @damnthatxanadu
(That's a joke)
Seriously, how awful to put up with anyone screaming in your face about anything. Sorry about that on behalf of all Obama supporters.
But I wanted to make a few points if I may:
1. You say that that 16-month withdrawal date is a major point of distinction for Obama supporters in choosing between him or her. Although you've offered anecdotal experience to that effect, I can honestly tell you as an Obama fan that I've quite literally never said or heard anyone else say that the big difference between the two candidates is their plan for troop withdrawal. I mean, honestly. I wonder if you'd even be able to find a single posting to that effect on salon. I'm happy to see it if you do, and I acknowledge that like all of us here, I'm not sure I catch all the stuff that doesn't support my own view.
The major Iraq distinction that most of us Obama supporters make, and that I've articulated many times, is that he was against authorization of the war in the fall of 2002 and she voted for it. We acknowledge that he was not in the same position that she was but offer that nevertheless he had something to lose politically in that oppressively nationalistic climate. To Clinton's attempts to conflate their views, simply because they have voted the same way since he joined the Senate, we Obama supporters say (as does he) that there is a big distinction between the first position, whether or not to go to war and the second what to do once engaged. So I would say that that you've read us wrong if you think the withdrawal date is something we've focused on. In fact, I was never, at any point, clear on what the specifics of each of their plans for withdrawal were. I understood, from watching the debates, that they both *really* held the position that Samantha Power articulated and that anything they said that narrowed that position was forced.
2. You say that his promise of withdrawal "turned out to be bullshit." Well, that's an overstatement, no? I mean, his adviser says to a third party that of course they have to look at the facts on the ground before they would implement carte blanche his campaign policy....That's not the same thing as saying his campaign policy is bullshit. I assume from everything we know that he will attempt to stay as close to his stated policy as possible.
3. And finally, for what it's worth, I'm not one of the Obama supporters you refer to who criticized her for it and then excused him. I've remained consistent in my shades of gray, and here is my post from the instance where it seemed she was in the same boat:
I'm one of those Dems who's not sure whether we should yank everybody out right away. I was vehemently against the war (and am voting for Obama for that reason), but I distinguish between the decision to go in and the subsequent decisions once in. I agree with those who have predicted that these promises by both candidates will blow up in the face of whomever gets to the White House.
At any rate, it seems unfair to hold Clinton responsible for someone else's interpretation of her words and record. Count me among the disappointed that Obama would exploit this issue.
We're not all bad, really.
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Oh come on...
where j'all go?
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This is truly ridiculous.
Of course neither candidate can make a precise plan for how to get out of Iraq right now. First of all, they aren't getting out RIGHT NOW. The "promise" part is "I'll leave as soon as possible without making the situation worse for Americans." I wish some actual news would happen already.
All that said, Power is much better outside the campaign, as a commentator.
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@lateagain
We're here.
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Latagain
I think you need to look at the debates again. When Obama promise to be out in 16 months I wrote cynically he'll probably not keep that promise and claim events intervened. Sure he made a big deal of his speech in 02, but when the question of Iraq was raised he didn't use any qualification as HRC did 1 or 2 brigades a month, probably in a year, but only if all troops and civilian contractors are safely out.
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@xeroid47
I'm trying to look at that debate again but can't quite get it. Anyone found it? I think Tim Russert moderated it. (I'm sure each of them solidified their positions since then, but I think that was where they were first pressed.)
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Can I buy a clue?
Could someone out there please tell me who Obama IS? Is he really the guy he claims to be, or is he a guy who is claiming to be something he isn't so he can gain higher office and THEN become the guy he really is - in order to do perfectly good things, of course. I realize it's quite audacious for me to hope for an answer, but hey, we can all dream.
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@lateagain xeroid47
I'm with lateagain. I keep repeating no plan survives contact with the enemy.
If president, I trust either Hillary or Obama to make a best faith effort to implement their plans for Iraq. But I understand that reality may intrude. They better have a damn convincing explanation though.
I also agree that there doesn't look to be an easy way out of Iraq. That's why I believe failure should not be rewarded, especially with regards to making a bad call on going to war. Edwards, Biden, and Dodd are no longer in the race, partially due to their war authorization vote. So be it.
Here's a bit from Obama's website:
Barack Obama's Plan
[...]
Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/
I agree it lacks the nuance of the statement from S. Power. Presumably iIf al Qaeda stays we stay, if civil war breaks out we still leave.
Should we stay or should we go in the event of a full-out civil war?