Letters to the Editor
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Michigan
If the Michigan vote IS counted, then how many delegates did Hillary get and how will the delegates for "uncommitted" be assigned? Will Hillary get half, or get none since those voters already decided not to support her when she was on the ballot?
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@ suekzoo
As Mark Twain said...
"I am not a member of an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."
I believe that was Will Rogers...
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Governors and primaries and voters, oh my!
Gov. Crist has already proposed the state of Florida hold another primary, and at state expense. Perhaps Gov. Granholm would join in this, the primaries be held, with Clinton, Obama, and "uncommitted" on the ballot, and the question resolved in this proper way.
Then seat the delegates that result from these and call it a day.
Anyone got any better ideas?
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I suppose that . . .
. . . most of you Obama supporters think that is fantastic that the DNC punished the state of Florida (I don't know about Michigan, I don't live there) for a decision made by the Republican dominated legislature. the local Democratic party had no control and could not impede the change of date for the FL primary.
I also have to assume that had million that Barack Obama spent in Florida, with TV ads and robo-calls, bear any fruits most of you Obama supporters would see with more sympathetic eyes the eventual participation of the Florida delegation in the Convention.
I still fail to see, but probably only because I am a Hillary supporters, the wisdom in disenfranchising the voters of a key swing state that went out to vote in record numbers.
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First the state Dem officers should all resign
After Michigan and Florida's Democratic Party leaders--the ones who blew this thing--have submitted resignations and been replaced, then their successors should stage a revote. That's the solution with the most justice.
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What a load of bull
You can't seat the delegates NOW when the primary comes down to a contest between two big nominees.
Either hold new elections, or don't seat the delegates.
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interesting
How some Clinton supporters are all for seating the delegates but if but the shoe were on the other foot, there would be holy hell, justified to raise.
In Michigan, key candidates like Obama, Edwards, et al were not on the ballot. In Florida, despite it not being recognized, Hillary put in a strong effort in comparison to Obama's late appearance.
It was stupid of the locals Dems to push forward their primaries given the consequences and would be equally wrong, regardless of Hillary or even if it was Obama who had won to suddenly change the rules of the game.
In fairness to the Democrats in those states there are only two conclusions, either suffer the consequences as laid out originally or and better yet, to redo the primaries. At whose expense to be determined.
If Hillary wins in a second go, fine. If Obama wins, fine. But to seat the delegates for Hillary from Michigan or Florida as is would be a travesty. And for some of you Hillary supporters, you know it would be wrong and would complain about it as I mentioned if Hillary hadn't won by default but Obama did.
If WE are to change the political landscape and future of this country then it is best for us to tend our own gardens first and behave in the way we want this country to be instead of the bickering name calling bullshit that passes as comment.
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New Elections!
Why is there such resistance to this? Real campaigns and contests will settle this matter. With campaigning, get out the vote and real stakes, there would be no question marks about the winner(s) of those contests like there is now.
I imagine that the Clinton campaign is afraid to do this, and keeps insisting on the "as is" results of the beauty contests, because she thinks that what she did in the early contests is the best that she can expect.
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Back before Obama lost Florida
He dropped hints galore that he thought the Florida delegation should be seated. Then, he lost.
He also campaigned via proxy. They all did. Not ideal campaigning, but there was a campaign (mostly through union supporters).
To be fair, all the candidates campaigned via proxy. And if Hillary had lost Florida, she would be arguing the Florida delegation should not be seated, just as Obama is now.
It's called "politics". It's not new, nor is it "of hope". It's politics.
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re-posting from a different thread...
This analogy isn't mine, I'm stealing it from Eric Zorn at the Chicago Tribune.
It's a baseball analogy, but bear with me. Seating the delegates from FL and MI now would be like saying in August or September "hey, remember those spring training exhibition games you played back in March? Those are going to count toward the standings now."
Or, if it's a re-vote you're interested in, it's like saying "remember those exhibition games? We're going to replay them in October, and it'll count toward the standings."
Do not let these spoiled children get away with it. To suggest that they should only plays into the GOP stereotype that we in the Democratic Party are unable or unwilling to enforce rules.
Sorry, MI and FL voters, but your beef is with your state party leaders (and yes, the GOP legislature was involved in Florida, but as posters have commented in other threads, there were plenty of enablers in the state Democratic party).
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Is a "redo" of MI and FL primaries even possible?
More than two candidates ran in the MI and FL Democratic primaries: Edwards and others (I've lost track of who dropped out when, but Edwards was still in it). He never did better than second, but his presence and, to a lesser degree that of the others, might have had considerable impact. How to account for that?
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My state isn't scheduled to vote until May.
If the nominee is decided before I have the chance to vote(again), can I whine and cry like Florida and Michigan?
Half the country is usually "disenfranchised" in the primaries by not having the opportunity to vote in them. You don't hear us whining about the candidates the early states pick for us.
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Howard Dean
Howard Dean did a great job explaining the situation on NPR today, it basically comes down to this:
1) The DNC tried talking with both Michigan and Florida prior to the primary season in an attempt to get them to stay within party guidelines. No one in the democratic leadership of these states seemed interested in talking at the time. The DNC even offered to help finance legitimate primaries that fell within the established rules, but that offer didn't interest anyone at the time.
2) The delegates cannot be seated with out either holding a sanctioned process to decide delegates (primary, caucus, whatever). This is set out in the rules.
3) The states could appeal to a body selected by the other, legal delegates to have their delegates seated (this would be done at the convention).
4) There is nothing stopping either state from presenting a plan for a valid selection process to the DNC. The DNC would welcome such action. So far, Dean says, no serious action has been taken on this front beyond the rhetoric from Crist.