Letters to the Editor
-
@David L.
Florida dems were forced into an early primary by the Republicans in power. In other words: The Democratic Party let Republicans disenfranchise Florida Democratic voters. At the very least, they deserve an opportunity to have some kind of election. How hard could it be to send out absentee ballots to every registered Democrat and count the results?
Michigan I have less sympathy for, although, in all fairness, the people who were disenfranchised had no say in the matter - it was non-elected party leaders who made the decisions.
-
BTW -- cythera45
"If I were a superdelegate..."
But you're not...and neither are the rest of us, if that makes you feel better
...and for all this talk about disenfranchisement by Hillary supporters, you can NOT have it both ways (superdelegates should vote their conscience and not the will of the people in their state, BUT FL and MI vote should be counted despite not following the party primary rules, etc.)
Again, it all goes back to Hillary's inconsistent message about what the rules are...ah hell, the rules don't matter, do they?
-
No, David L., they do not
Winning matters.
-
They don't call her Machivellian...
for nothing.
-
@OtherLisa
I used to read Daily Kos, so I understand where these people are coming from. You wouldn't believe the garbage passing for truth on that site right now. It used to be a good site, but most people who have the ability to rub two brain cells together to form a spark have headed for higher ground. It is a series of mudfests all aimed at either promoting Obama or trashing Clinton. After a few views, you will see how people can believe that Clinton is a selfish, greedy, cheating liar who doesn't deserve to lick Obama's shoes, and that Obama is the Great Hope For The Future Of America. If people have lost their ability to reason, it's because the places they used to go for information, the "reality based community", has let them down.
-
Yes, Dailykos has become
a continuing embarrassment. Kos himself predicted this morning that Obama would win Texas going away and lose Ohio by only four points. Moronic.
-
various
"I think this a little too simple for me. I think a better set of questions is to ask which candidate does better in each state against McCain."
But in that case you're substituting a completely unknown quantity for a completely known quantity-which doesn't make sense. We know who beat whom in the Dem elections in those states; we have no idea who'd beat McCain in those states. You're making your assertion of who does "better" based on polls. By that logic, Obama never should have run as Hillary was so far ahead, Hillary should have conceded after New Hampshire, etc. And one need only look at any Presidential election and the polls 8 months in advance to see how they pan out.
"My magic 8-ball tells me that all the critical factors that will determine who wins and loses haven't been revealed yet."
That I can agree with. But that's another reason I think it's silly to do anything based on these hypothetical matchups against McCain
"2ndly, everyone needs to get off of this caucus-hating shit...Hillary knew about those state rules months ago, and any idiot with some campaigning sense would have figured out how to deal with that issue."
It has nothing to do with competence, rules, etc. It's simply true that caucuses are inherently less democratic than primaries. Anything that makes it more difficult to lodge a vote is inherently less democratic. Why do you think Ohio extended voting tonight? To be more democratic--defined as giving the greatest number of people the greatest opportunity to vote. Why do states allow early voting? Absentee balloting? Why did we get rid of poll taxes? To be more democratic. To give more people a greater chance to vote. By definition, a caucus is less democratic because it is more burdensome. In a non-close race, it doesn't matter. In such a tight race, it means a person who leads in delegates based on a huge success rate in caucuses has a weaker argument. Washington State is proof of that--look at the difference between the caucus and the primary and the difference in voter totals.
" agree with you--ultimately, it's the delegate count that wins. Those are the rules"
So you see no irony (let alone hypocrisy) in a candidate who runs his campaign on "people power" and the will of the people losing the popular vote but taking the nomination?
-
@billcap
Obama has the popular vote. This was posted two pages ago:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
As long as you ignore the primary where he wasn't even on the ballot, he' leading there too.
-
To clarify
As long as you ignore the state where he wasn't on the ballot, he's still winning the popular vote.
His delegate lead is a bit higher than you'd expect considering how much he's leading the popular vote by but then....he's playing to win.
-
The problem with the big state argument
The majority of the big states that Hillary Clinton has won (California, New York, New Jersey, Michigan) are the same big states that Democrats won in LOSING elections for 2000 and 2004. They are Democratic states, and they will generally fall in line with whoever the Democratic nominee is. There's this false assumption that Obama would lose in the same big states that Hillary won during the primary process. However, these states will more than likely back the eventual winner of the Democratic Primary process.
In 1992 Bill Clinton failed to carry both Texas and Florida, but he won his path to the nomination by splitting the Heartland and the South. No Democrat has done that since Bill Clinton's winning campaign. A Democrat hasn't carried Texas in a general election since Jimmy Carter in 1976.
As for Ohio, there's a little mythology that has to be dispelled. You can lose in Ohio as a Democrat in the general election and still be president. Kennedy did just that in 1960. However, the real concern is this. No candidate, Democrat or Republican, has reached the Presidency losing BOTH Texas and Ohio in the general election. A candidate can lose one or the other and go on to win, but nobody has lost both and reached the White House.