Letters to the Editor
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"it was known well before those elections that they would not count"
So where was the public outrage in those states while the decision was being made? It was widely reported nationally when it happened. I don't recall any public outrage aimed at local party officials for screwing the voters.
Obama played by the rules, Clinton tried to snake around the rules with the intention of CHANGING the rules after the fact. If the clintons are allowed to succeed with this scheme and get the nomination, the Democrats will lose in a landslide in November.
Howard Dean better show some balls in this.
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If No One Gets 2,025
Then it cannot be stolen.
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This is very telling.
So we can expect Clinton not to honor her agreements when they don't suit her thirst for power.
Noted.
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Winning Ugly
And so it begins, Clinton segueing from "Queen Inevitable" to "Poor Hillary" to "Win Through Pity" to "Winning Ugly" -- backs against the wall, with nothing to lose but the election, of course that's what they'll do. Throw down a card from an on-board NAACP Clinton guy ("See? He's black! He just wants justice!!") and away they fly, the ruthless Clintonian votemongering...
"I urge you in the strongest possible terms to come to some solution to this problem which will not leave the millions of voters that went to the polls to cast a free and unfettered vote during the primary without representation."
The problem with this is several-fold: 1) the only solution acceptable to the Clintons will be a Clinton win, regardless of the method; 2) the votes weren't free and unfettered because of the absence of names of the ticket, and campaigning; and 3) determining who "Uncommitted" were voting for -- don't their votes count? No, they don't. Not really.
The Clintons will fight anything that doesn't give them the win and the delegates. The caucus argument doesn't matter. A primary would prompt as much resistance. Anything but a Clinton win is a non-starter in the camp of Clinton. I really with the Democrats had worked this out when MI and FL up-jumped their contests. Nice of them to wait to bring this up in earnest until after Clinton got swept again. They figured they had to, now.
Go ahead; give HR Clinton her delegates -- it'll motivate the Obama supporters to win the remaining states all the more decisively, and there won't be anything for Clintonites to whine about. Maybe Dean can have them caucus for the "Uncommitted" delegates and let them commit to a candidate. Depriving Clinton of this as a campaign issue is worth it, if you have confidence that Obama can beat her in a fair, free, and open fight -- which he's demonstrated to date.
Clinton's only got one more safety after this one gets used, and the superdelegates might not think she's so super if she gets swamped in the coming contests, and with the cynical electioneering she's been doing.
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The name is Bond...
Julian Bond : License to sHill.
Quite simply : the state parties broke the rules - with full awareness of the consequences - and were punished accordingly. Here endeth the tale.
But something about Bond's involvement in this affair just plain stinks, especially in the way he re-frames the issue in terms of minority disenfranchisement. If Obama vigorously responds to this, he runs the risk of being dragged into a debate about race, taking away the focus away his message and momentum.
At this point it seems to me that the Clinton camp is trying to staunch the bleeding : "let's throw everything we have at him, see what sticks"
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WES
You're predicting McCain will beat Obama in the general election?
Excellent! Given your history of predictions Obama will win in a landslide.
Will you promise to leave the country and stop posting here if Obama wins? Not that you'll keep either promise, I just want you to stay consistent.
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At One Point
The naivety of the Obama camp, and of Obama himself for that matter, was kind of cute. Now it's downright scary.
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Hee!
Marry me, Lynx!
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God No
It's the riff-raff from the sports thread.
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sad
It is always a sorry spectacle when world-changing-when-young folks turn into politburo hacks as years progress and power is held too long. Thus goeth Mr. Bond.
The DNC said to Michigan and Florida, "You jumped the gun. We won't count you."
The candidates pledged to honor the DNC decision.
Ms. Clinton has chosen to renege on her pledge. How surprising.
Mr. Bond has chosen to join her in that attempt to change the rules after she started to lose at the polling place. How sad.
Shame on you, Ms. Clinton. Shame on you, Mr. Bond. You will not achieve your goal, and you'll carry that shame until you apologize. We're waiting.
The solution: as primary season nears its close, set a do-over. Primary or caucus, doesn't matter, flip a coin if you like. Nothing else would get closer to fairness.
-- stanley krute
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Post-Partisanship can beat this
Even though MI and FL both knowingly flouted Democratic Party rules in their moves, and even though Clinton bucked the Democratic Party by staying on the ballot in MI, and even though Obama did the principled thing by adhering to the DNC edict to begin with -- the Clintons definitely want Obama's people (or Dean, by proxy) to not seat those delegates, so it can become a classic Clintonian wedge issue.
And that's why Obama should definitely deprive the Clintons of this issue by letting the delegates sit (albeit with some kind of penalty from the DNC -- there has to be some consequence for bucking the DNC). In so doing, Obama will show what post-partisanship means, and will show that he's got the courage of his convictions that he can win this election not by gaming the system, Clinton-style, but through votes in state after state, until he wins the nomination.
Otherwise, the Clintons will make this into an attack issue, which is really their intention from the get-go, once they realized they'd have a nomination fight on their hands, and not a cakewalk. It's another trap, and I hope Obama avoids it as smoothly as he's avoided the other traps the Clintons have thrown his way. My hope is that Dean sees this, too.
The ultra-partisan Clintons want nothing more than to be able to declare the election they're losing as "illegitimate" and will use those MI and FL delegates to that effect. They'll take it all the way to court, destroy the Democratic Party, poison the well. Anything they can get away with.
Obama should face them down with courage and candor, and graciously concede those delegates to Clinton, eliminating this as an issue. That will make Clinton look terrible, and will show that Obama's confident that he can win, and will motivate the Obama supporters in the remaining states to come out in force for their candidate. I think Obama can win many more delegates taking the high road than fighting in the gutter with the Clintons on this.
We're halfway to the nomination, and how you get there is as important as where you're headed. Obama knows this; does Clinton? Watch his campaign, and watch theirs.