of McCain winning the nomination.

"this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles "

I am really tired of this drum being beaten. And I have no doubt that it is true. I am a commited atheist, but certain ideas are universal, like all people being equal, in the eyes of god or whoever.

Our nations founders would not have recognized these christians

for me, that is, because I used to actually kinda like McCain. Blech.

Yesterday in a letter I wrote about the fun I was planning to have watching McCain, Rudy, Fred Thompson and Mitt bend themselves pretzel style to kiss the sphincters of the Religious Right. I had no idea the show would start so early! "Honey, bring the popcorn! John McCain is about to accept James Dobson's bank account as his personal lord and savior!"

All snark aside (and it's not easy), what a sad end to the political aspirations of a man who was once principled, honorable and forthright. Like Colin Powell, John McCain has sunk to the level of his peers. He's a good reminder, once again, that honor has nothing to do with wearing a uniform. Either you have it and live it, or you don't.

RIP, Senator. Don't wear your best suit to the immersion.

"Okay John, final round question! 'The majority of Americans say that the United States is a _______ nation.'"

"Um, I'm going to say 'Christian', Bob."

"Ooo, sorry John! The correct answer was 'democratic'. Looks like you don't win the Oval Office desk and chair set. But you've picked up some lovely prizes along the way, isn't that right Becky?"

"That's right Bob! John will be taking home this lovely Congressional pension plan, a set of personalised lobbyists, this deluxe hardbound memoir (already featured on clearance racks), and a beautfully touring bus!"

"Okay, those are nice too. And I can come back and play again, right?"

"Ha ha, good one, John! We'll call you if we do charity special."

or to the nut-house for St. John. He has completely lost it.

ever hear of the enlightenment? ya know, that brief period of time in the eighteenth century where logic, democracy and reason were the primary motivators of leaders? Where people practiced religion as part of their lives, but found a way to blend that in with the fabric of government, science, reason, government.

You know? The eighteenth century? Right about, oh, before 1776. Like, when most of the founding fathers were growing up. and ya know, most of our founding fathers were Enlightened, (as it were).

THis judeo-christian stuff is just another way the Right moves us toward a religious theocracy.

Yet more proof as if any more were needed that becoming a republican strips even the best of us of the last shred of integrity.

Someday, when little schoolchildren ask their grandparents why the repugs disappeared, we will point to what happened to John McCain, and solemnly intone:

"Nature cannnot abide a moral vacuum."

Then he could quote 'Save America for Jesus' unquote safely.

This country was founded upon the principles of the Enlightenmentwhich was certainly anti-church, if not anti-religion. The founders certainly recognized the value of the moral code found in the Bible, but they certainly did not derive their philosophy of goverment it. Incidently, those moral values are much the same as you'd find in the Koran.

Sorry, but McCain's "come to Jesus" moment doesn't pass the sniff test he likes to tirelessly invoke. I'm so sick of the (snake) oily Christianists setting the tone for this kind of pandering, expecting politicians to court them. Enough of them, please.

"We welcome the poor, the tired, the huddled masses. But when they come here they know that they are in a nation founded on Christian principles."

It's probably a better bet that our nation was founded on Confucian principles than Christian, given the interest the Founding Fathers had in Confucius's secular system of ethics, deriving morality in the absence of a higher power, as well as Enlightenment Deism as a way of reconciling the absurdities of dogmatic faith.

I would imagine that, and the disaster of European history with the wars of religion of the 15th and 16th centuries, led the Founders to willfully avoid a nation founded on Christian principles (whatever those unenumerated, yet often-cited Christian principles actually are, precisely).

John Adams himself spoke well when he expressed exasperation with the Puritans: "What a mercy it is that these People cannot whip and crop, and pillory and roast, as yet in the U.S.! If they could they would."

Seems like the fundamentalists are busy trying to recast our nation's founding into something it wasn't, which is not unlike their well-oiled and strenuous efforts to transform the Bible, and Christianity at large, into something it's not.

Wow, and if he actually won the election maybe he could speak in tongues and handle snakes at the innauguration.

How about a constitutional amendment to the effect that all presidents will be forcibly baptized at their inauguration?

This levels the playing field, so you know it makes sense, and it means that even if a heathen candidate gets elected, we still get a Christian president whose past sins, conducted during the election campaign, will be washed away.

John McCain was a true war hero.

But like the Republican party he supports & represents he has become a total joke.

Yea right, Christian principles like, “Love thy neighbour as yourself’ or “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

More recently, the Christian values that is fiercely pro-life BUT also allow you to equip thousands of able bodied men and women with sophisticated machines that are designed to kill people and then send them to Iraq to do just that.

Do I also have to correct my perception of America that it was founded on freedom? Freedom of speech and religion with a clear separation of church and state?

that we will no longer be treated to the MSM's constant boostering of McCain as a maverick??

I really don't understand why the article seems to place an inordinate amount of stress on the particular method (immersion) of baptism that McCain has expressed interest in (it's featured prominently in the heading).

I'm assuming the intent is to imply that McCain is choosing a more "radical" or "conservative" method of baptism as part of his overall pander to the Christian right, but this is not the case.

There's nothing more inherently radical or conservative about immersion baptism as opposed to other methods (sprinkling, pouring water from a basin, etc...). A wide variety of Christian denominations (and congregations) use this method, including very liberal and progressive ones.

Choosing a particular method of baptism is very often left up to the individual, and some congregations will practice different methods depending on the individual's choice and other factors (such as time of year, etc...).

Yes, McCain's full-on pandering to the religious right is troubling, but I don't think the fact that he's discussion a particular method of baptism is at all a significant aspect of that, as the article seems to imply.