No, no, Americans would much rather surrender our civil liberties to government bureaucrats (and be "safer" for it), our money to the wealthy who know better how to make our lives happy (grin and bear it) and leave our health in the hands of HMO bureaucrats who know whats best for "us," if "us" means the HMO bottom line.

Thanks, Karl, you've taken such good care of us up to now.

Hillary herself has bought into the mythical story that she once pushed socialized medicine (hence her statements that she has "learned from her mistakes" as she pushes right-wing, tax-credit healthcare).

If I were the Republicans, I'd just keep on claiming crazy crap like this because it works. Call the Democrats chicken and they'll support your war. Call the Democrats socialists and they'll shovel out taxpayer dollars to industry. It's a piece of cake.

They've got Karl Rove bolstering her campaign full-time now, having left the White House to fulfill his new duties. Because of course, being villified by a nationally-recognized villain like Karl Rove is sure to increase your credibility. It's ridiculous to suggest that Karl Rove doesn't know this, and isn't writing his anti-Hillary pieces with exactly that in mind. They've identified Hillary as the candidate they can most easily beat -- in fact, their only hope to win the White House in 08.

Can someone please just hurry up and reveal whatever secret sex crime Karl Rove is surely guilty of so that he can go away already? There's gotta be SOME prostitute, male or female, or inbetween, or SOME child he's chatted with on the internet that could come forward so we can all be put out of our misery? Please?

Just like that other socially-directed security program, called, um... "Social Security"! People hate that thing! Those checks the elderly get every month? Illusions! That money people cash them for to pay for food and heat and rent? Not real!

Oh wait, it's not people who hate that "illusory security." Just Republican government officials.

If you want to see real illusory security, watch Michael Moore's "Sicko," Karl. Think health insurance actually insures people's health? Think again. But then, you already knew that.

"Americans want to trade freedom and innovation for the illusory security of government regulation and surrender control of their health decisions to government bureaucrats."

As compared to what Karl? The pharmaceutical bill written by the drug companies and passed by the Republican's to fleece the American people with overpriced drugs.

Or...do you mean that despite the fact that we are the richest country in the world,t we do not have national healthcare, as do all the other rich countries, and some of the less wealthy countries do?

And... as for the freedom thing? Uh...surely you are not talking about the wiretapping... as that truly is trading freedom for the illusion of government security. Oh.. wait... we didn't trade that, you took it. Illegally.

Hey Karl? Are you still allowed to walk the streets as a free man? Amazing.

Hillary's program is something that only crazy Republicans were pushing just four years ago -- now the GOP is attacking it for being socialist. Pretty soon Bush will be remembered for being too lavish a spender on the poor and too unwilling to use force abroad. Watch out America.

Would I rather have a government bureaucrat or an private sector accountant make my health care choices for me?

Let's see - I'm gonna have to go with the bureaucrat you know, no profit motive involved in giving me skint.

Thanks for asking.

I am "fortunate" enough to have an 1,100 deductible for just myself. I can already get "tax credits" to get some of it back but it still amounts to a ridiculously large amount of money. The idea is to make so expensive that I don't go to the doctor.

I hope whoever writes a real health care reform bill in the future is careful otherwise the next Republican President will just outsource those "bureaucratic" jobs back to the insurance companies.

You remind me of General Custer in "Little Big Man," right before he leads the troops into Little Big Horn. Stop trying to do Karl Rove's thinking for him. The GOP couldn't beat the Clinton machine in '92, '96, (or '98, for that matter). I'm starting to believe they won't be able to beat them in '08, either. Especially if all they have to go on is weak attacks like that.

The last thing the Democrats should base their nomination on is the person they believe Karl Rove least wants to run against. The Democrats need to nominate the best person for the job--whoever that happens to be--and stop worrying about what Karl Rove thinks.

No reason to avoid blunt language here.

The only innovations the health care industry cares about are the ones that help them to fuck us.

So Karl doesn't think that:

"Americans want to trade freedom and innovation for the illusory security of government regulation and surrender control of their health decisions to government bureaucrats."

I'll believe the Republicans are serious about the evils of surrendering "control of their health decisions to government bureaucrats." when Junior and the other members of the Republican Congressional and Administration upper crust stop going to Bethesda for their socialized medical care.

The only freedom that many Americans will be trading away is the freedom to decide whether to eat, pay rent, or to go to the doctor and actually get the medicine that's prescribed for them. Or the freedom to worry that their insurance company will "previous condition" away their care if they need to switch employers. I think that getting rid of those "freedoms" is the kind of "innovation" most people would find useful.

Insulated doesn't even begin to describe these clowns.

The right has succeeded in confabulating 'healthcare decisions' with 'payment responsibilites for years. That's the crux of the 'socialized medicine' bogeyman.

But beyond that, simply pose the choice of healthcare decisions being made by a 'government bureaucrat' who's job it is to pay for the care, or by an insurance bureaucrat, who's job it is to DENY coverage.

The latter is what we have today. How's that working out by the way?