...it's too early to tell that means in real world speak that the surge is failing, or barely limping along.

Westmorland was a liar, Odierno and Pace are liars. 'nuff said...

Maybe Republicans were just stalling for time when they kept saying we would know if any progress was being made in September, but so be it. They mentioned September over and over. They made it important. They made their bed, and somehow come September they have to be made to lie in it.

thanks to bush, the mightiest military in history got its ass kicked. Everyone knows we've lost and we're leaving sooner or later.

Could it work the other way too? Like the Operation Iraqi Freedom and the flower throwing jubilant receivers of that type of freedom, which in realty was hatred of the oil hungry occupiers? Military force to install democracy? What a fallacity! Fighting terrorists by creating them, George you need to live in an asylum instead of the White House! Admit you lost it. Both the war and your mind.

"When fighting a counterinsurgency, you have to first understand the environment you're operating in: its people, the enemy, the physical and human terrain and the local dynamics. And only then can you begin to understand what must be done to accomplish your mission."

Our military is stretched to the breaking point, thousands dead, tens of thousands maimed, scores of thousands choosing to not re-enlist. National Guard units and reservists are being involuntarily extended. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is an unaknowledged epidemic. Recruiters are scraping the bottom of the barrel, and lowering their standards. So now were asking delinquents, convicts, and high school drop-outs to "understand the environment?"

Sounds like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are still doing the planning.

or, in other words, also known as, "before the first primary" ... and/or "well after the next funding battle" ...

* I can't recall his exact word ... but he meant that results before then, like results **now**, were likely to not be meaningful ... if you know what I mean and I think you do ;-))

There is significant psychological power/dominance in being the one holding the dictionary and defining, re-defining and then redefining as needed just about anything they please .... as-if.

Democrats waffle at their peril.

"When fighting a counterinsurgency, you have to first understand the environment you're operating in: its people, the enemy, the physical and human terrain and the local dynamics. And only then can you begin to understand what must be done to accomplish your mission."

Minga! They've had four friggin years to figure this out. OK, so maybe the first year doesn't count as the occupiers were smelling the freshly cut flowers the liberated were handing out. But, come on, if these army guys haven't figured out their opponent and their wiles by now they have no business being there. It's murder, plain and simple...

Odierno explained. "However, in a counterinsurgency we've quickly learned they must be immersed into the local populace, and it will take new units anywhere from 30 to 60 days to really get a feel for their sectors, so they truly can have an impact on security and stability in their area.

"When fighting a counterinsurgency, you have to first understand the environment you're operating in: its people, the enemy, the physical and human terrain and the local dynamics. And only then can you begin to understand what must be done to accomplish your mission.

"So my message is that the surge is not yet fully in place, and that it will take time and patience before we begin to realize its effects."

Um, what have the commanders on the ground, in charge of the overall mission, been doing for the last 2 years in Baghdad? One would have thought that by now at least the commanders would have a pretty clear idea of "...[the] people, the enemy, the physical and human terrain and the local dynamics." And it shouldn't take them 30-60 days to brief the arriving troops.

It never stops, it's always with the Bushistasin one form or another, in the war, in the deaths for profit, in the SCOTUS etc.etc.etc.

Rich, I argued that he was angling to foist it off on others. Whether he succeeds is another matter. He just might, notwithstanding his crap JAR numbers. He continues to use our soldiers as human shields rather well.

And, yeah, he does indeed personify the Peter Principle. I've long said that as well.

'Cause it sure seems to be identical. And I'm sure it will work just as well. Does Bush43 et al really need to see 60,000 dead US soldiers and Christ knows how many dead Iraqis before Congress will evolve a pair of testicles and CUT OFF FUNDING?

Maybe so! Glad I'm past draft age. Pity my kids aren't. Different generation, same imperialist bullshit.

...to have no accountability for results. We who actually work for a living would find ourselves unemployed for hem and haw on such a colossal scale. Rearranging the deck chairs and telling people to "just wait and you'll see" ad infinitum is irresponsible, but since there's no one holding this Administration culpable for its actions, they can continue to get away with this.

He's risen to his highest level of incompetence, for sure. And given that only about 25% of the public expresses support for him now, there's no way he's going to get the "free pass" of dumping all responsibility for the Iraq debacle on his successor. I have to disagree with BobbyG's previous comment.

By far, the majority of Americans recognize Dubya for what he is, and likely always will be: Worst. President. Ever.

Like he has always done, Bush is simply angling to foist this mess off on others down the road. Dump this shit in Hillary's or whomever's lap: his successor is to become the one who "lost Iraq," negating his Noble Effort.

He can then move on to do for MLB what's he's done for the nation.