I meant January 2009.

I just read a story about 2 soldiers who had their legs blown off by an RPG. How many more legs? For what?

It will end when we demand it, until then, more legs.

q-u-a-g-m-i-r-e and pronounced "veet-nahm" and it means more and more and more and more... [Am.Eng.Pol., see: tax cut 2000]

So now Bush can say anyone who wants results before April 2008 is ignoring the advice of the commanders in Iraq.

Do you think Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno would keep his position if he didn't say what the Bush administration wanted to hear?

Hopefully hearing from the Generals who didn't go along with Bush will help counter this. However, I'm not that confident that many voters will make that connection.

See http://votevets.org for a group who is trying to accomplish just that.

.. as long as Judgement Day never arrives.

Does anyone notice that this whole "just give me a little more time -- I swear, I'll start getting get my act together tomorrow/next week/next month" thing is a classic denial mode for addicts of all stripes?

But I guess that's what you get when you put a drunk in charge.

Wait until April of next year...TO DECIDE IF WE SHOULD KEEP GOING??? And, with Bush and his minions still in charge, is there any chance that the answer would be anything but keep going?

How many more lives will be lost on all sides? How many more billions of dollars poured down the hole?

Doctors use to treat a wide variety of conditions by using leeches to draw the blood from a patient. And the treatment often did more harm than good. Well, this war without end is drawing the blood both from Iraq itself and from the U.S. And the harm being inflicted is incalculable.

So come September what are the top five,top ten or take your pick "leading indicators" of "progress in Iraq" going to be? A done oil law deal? A sudden collapse of opposition to the American Occupation? Iraqis just decide to stop fighting each other over politics,tribal loyalties and religous views? Or Iraq sends the Bush2WH a nice and submissive "we give up--run Iraq as you please" diplomatic signal and note? Or maybe not? Wait until December. Wait until March 2008. Wait for "clear" signs of progress by April 2008? Or will it be June 2008? The circle logic involved points to the Americans staying in Iraq for a long time to come.

Iraq oil control is central to American ME goals.USAF control of Iraqi air space is central. Being able to menace Iran is central to American ME desire. Staying in Iraq is how the Americans will maintain that control and threat of menace. Hence the super-bases will be kept and be fully operational for many years to come. If the Iraqis want us out--too bad--tough. Americans will not be leaving Iraq anytime soon.

Dick Cheney told some big lies to get USA into Iraq. Does Dick Cheney look or sound like he is thinking about leaving Iraq? The "surge" is code for "buy more time to put the fix in" in Cheney/neocon think.The DC DEMS dont seem to have leaving Iraq in all ways in mind either. It should really not come as a surprise that the DC DEMS are playing kabuki theatre over "leaving Iraq legislation" while avoiding talk about the mercenary component or any retreat from those super-bases. Who so far has said in plain wording that all Americans in all capacities will be pulled out,the super-bases left behind and all further American interest,military operations and presence in Iraq taken out or shut down? Who?

we have been placed under Marshal Law and haven't realized it because of the "illusion" of free elections. The deals have been made, the players placed, the electorate duped. Mark the year 2000 down as the beginning of the end of Rome II. Good by democracy, we hardly knew you...

They're ability to reappraise and change course in any meaningful way appears defective ...

Suggest they are "running out the clock" and they act offended, and yet, it's that old definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ... lipstick on a pig ...

I suspect Cheney went over to talk some sense into Petraeus and/or to received (and/or fabricate) some "from the horse's mouth" new intel from the new "boss" with which to sooth Republican brows ....

Bush/Cheney have given "cannon fodder" a whole new meaning ...

If you hate this insensate war, you should familiarize yourself with this refrain. It'll help you see the future long before Petraeus et al condescendingly lecture us on what's "really" happening.

Right now, we're up to our earlobes in blood. So, why do we need to wait 'til September for a "fortright assessment"? 'Cos we're buying time for the neocons and the DEM/GOP hawks, and we're buying it with other people's blood, limbs and lives.

As "debpet" points out, we're being asked to "wait until April of next year...TO DECIDE IF WE SHOULD KEEP GOING???" (And does anyone seriously doubt what the decision in April will be?)

So … it's not only about the constantly receding horizon (September, January, April … whenever), it's about reviewing our tactics … but KEEPING THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. Remember, Petraeus is only promising to give a "fortright assessment" of "PROGRESS" in Iraq. Come September, I promise you, no matter what "setbacks" have been experienced in the interim, the Brass will find reasons to be optimistic. "Mistakes" will have been made, of course; but so will "progress." So, Petraeus will outline a continuation of the bloodshed and promise another "forthright assessment" of our "situation" at a later date. The Brass won't concede defeat in this thing and are already lining up their designated political fall guy (most likely al-Maliki; but it should really be Dubya). Vietnam taught us that the military are NEVER to blame. The failures are always caused by a political or civilian "stab in the back."

Not only are the Military not to blame, but it has ALREADY been decided (and declared official truth) that the US "won the war." The only failure was to "secure the peace." And, as everyone knows, that's not the function of an Army. That's a matter for the Police. And politicians.

So, John MacCain doesn't need to worry that failure in Iraq will damage the American military the way "Vietnam Syndrome" did. 'Cos this time, despite the continuing loss of life, the Liberation of Iraq will go into the books in the "W" column. And the current post-war "Surge" is a "W" too. 'Cos it's widely perceived as a valiant attempt by the military to SAVE a clueless President. So, the Brass are off the hook on this one. Althought the Boots keep dying.

But … if the war has been won, what are we fighting for? Well … we're fighting to protect the SuperBases. And the SuperBases are necessary to protect our "vital national interest." And "our vital national intertest" is, as everyone knows, OIL. At $3 per gallon (and climbing) I'm sure we can all agree it's worth the bloodshed.