Tim, as pointed out by "johnhummel" yesterday (and others, of course), the withdrawal timetables contained in this budget resolution were NON-BINDING. You omitted that in this War Room item.

No respectable report on this issue should omit the word NON-BINDING. The budget as approved gave every dollar requested by Dubya -- AND MORE.

Keep saying it until everyone (*especially* Bush and every other Republican voicing resistance) screams "Enough already, we get it! The timetables are NON-BINDING!!!"

Non-binding. NON-BINDING. N*O*N-B*I*N*D*I*N*G!

Because of his veto with that pen, he's about to get more Marines killed.

These people have no sense of irony. They call the passage of a bill requiring accountability for results in Iraq a "trumped-up political stunt" on the anniversary of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" carrier landing while Mitch McConnell invokes Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn Rule" when saying that whatever happens in Iraq is the Democrat's responsibility if they legislate on the war.

I think it's safe to say that Bush and company see themselves quite differently than the rest of the world does.

isn't much of a plan and I'm sure the pen owner would agree.

Once again, wrong.

False alarm again people.

2 days in a row.

Your masturbation fantasy will be on MSNBC tomorrow night at 8 PM. Tune in, dim the lights and have at it.

So Washington shouldn't have evacuated the Continental Army from New York in 1776? The British should have just stuck it out at Dunkirk? Should the US have no plan to ever leave Iraq?

The legislation Bush vetoed says that Bush should either certify that Iraq is capable of standing on its own, at which point a withdrawl begins, or explain why they have to stay. It's nonbinding except for requiring Bush to take responsibility and explain his actions. Sure, some Democrats wanted to cut off funding after a certain date, like the GOP controlled Congress did a couple of times when Clinton was President, but that's not what Bush vetoed.

It all becomes crystal clear.

We've wondered why there were no plans to evacuate New Orleans and its environs after a massive hurricane strike and breaching of the levees. The answer turns out to be the SAME ONE offered by tiberius in his pithy (pathetic?) little quip.

Just as in Iraq, pulling humans out of harm's way in logical reaction to reality is nothing but RETREAT. Real men don't "retreat" (and neither do women and children) -- they just suck it up, continuing to bleed, drown and die for no other reason than the fact that we NEVER RETREAT.

NOW I understand. Thanks, tiberius.

Bush said he would veto funding for the troops and then he did it. What seems to go unnoticed is that this is the first time in six years that he has told the truth about anything related to Iraq.

Gosh, I hope the parents of every fallen Marine (and other branches of the service) send Bush pens.

That might be a nice memorial for Bush and his war, something his handlers can put in his presidential library. Maybe red pens, like blood. A big, big pile of them, and getting bigger every day. Then the Bushies will be forced to either fail to acknowledge the receipt of the pens, secretly dispose of them, or else will be stuck with those pens for the rest of his life.

Slackie Onasis wrote:

"Gosh, I hope the parents of every fallen Marine (and other branches of the service) send Bush pens."

Slackie, that is a great idea! You should email that to The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, and anyone else who might be able to get that off the ground.

"... lord knows I won't be using it to write letters to my son in Iraq."

from me because my son had died in Bush's war of choice, the signing ceremony would have had to take place in an emergency ward where doctors would first have had to remove the pen from Bush's ass...

Washington didn't quit the war.

Based on the hardships they faced, the loyalists and the English I'm sure if you were alive then you would be publishing leaflets saying that Washington should give up and negotiate.

Washington used the same tactics that the Iraqis are using against us, the same tactics that the Vietnamese studied and used against us.

Guess what - They work

That why England was wrong then, and we are wrong now. There is more than one way to win, but you have to pull your head out of your ass to see it.

Just wondering.

depends on your definition of it, I guess (insert Clinton reference here).

But really, Calmer, that's my point above, although I don't think your question poses ideas that are mutally exclusive - rather the opposite.

Nobody wins unless everybody wins

Nobody is free unless every body is free

A Martial arts instructor doesn't teach by beating the shit out of his students, and we should not look at teaching democracy the way Bush seems to be teaching it.

I'm rambling, but it's only because I'm wicked sick.

it's not about the tactics one uses, it's about the causes they are used for.

Washington was fighting to create one of the most free nations in history. We now are fighting to allow people more freedom than they have had in decades.

The insurgents and terrorists may copy our tactics but they don't copy our causes. If you think their causes are just then that's something you have to deal with on your own.

"Based on the hardships they faced, the loyalists and the English I'm sure if you were alive then you would be publishing leaflets saying that Washington should give up and negotiate."

...and I'm equally sure you'd be insisting that the German troops stay in Stalingrad instead of retreating. How'd that turn out?

Washington moved his forces so that he could continue to fight. If he had insisted on digging in and fighting the English where he was, throwing away the Continental Army in the process, then that'd be closer to Bush's decisions.

Also, Bush moved our forces out of the war on Afghanistan so that he could invade Iraq, letting the person who actually orchestrated the attack on the US get away in the process.

At this point we'd be better off if our military was able to respond to threats instead of being bogged down and seriously depleted.