Wow. 64 percent eh? That would constitute a majority of Americans, wouldn't it?

and setting the world on fire for the express purpose of showering cash on your war-profiteering cronies IS a serious foreign policy?

You have to keep in mind that Republican electoral success has been dependant on getting voters to believe things that just aren't true.

They don't say that the Democratic candidates are pushing a radical agenda because it's true. Republicans say things like this because they want people to start believing it even though it isn't true.

And when Dan Bartlett makes that statement he is only tying to "placate a very radical element of their (his) own party." He's playing to the small percentage of Republicans that refuse to see reality and that includes the President.

OK, some Republican bloviator makes a claim that mischaracterizes reality. And then, here in the choir room, you point out how it is incorrect.

What is worse, it relates to the mistaken idea that popular sentiment should drive military decisions. And you act like there is some sudden shift that makes this version of popular sentiment an appropriate one to drive our military decisions, when the popular sentiment of four years ago help drive us into this disastrous venture.

I want the war to end. I want to end the squandering of American blood and treasure in this quagmire. But deciding how best to do this need to be left to the professionals.

The average voter on the streets still lacks the knowledge and expertise necessary to judge what is the best way to prosecute this military venture. It is disingenuous at best to pretend that "what the American people want" is a basis upon which to make military decisions, when "what the American people want" cheered us right into this mess.

Yes, I understand that this is a response to a mischaracterization. But it accomplishes nothing, other than to increase the level of acrimony surrounding this issue.

"Look how wrong they are!!" Yeah, that helps.

That's what got us here, Farnsie!

The public sentiment that originally cheered the war was based on a coordinated campaign of lies orchestrated by the same people who are still in power and who want to remain in power. The "professionals" didn't get to decide how to deal with Iraq when the decision was made to go to war, planning the aftermath of the fall of Hussein's governemnt wasn't done by professionals, the rebuilding of Iraq with the CPA certainly wasn't run by professionals, and the White House has replaced those who disagreed with them every step of the way.

Now the same people who wanted the invasion in the first place are still lying about the situation and, either they or those agreeable enough to cooperate, are still running the war based on political considerations.

Unless the public sentiment is enough to get Congress to impeach both Bush and Cheney, not real likely, then all of the statements like Bartlet's are more about the 2008 election than what will happen in Iraq.

Who gets to run the government after 2008 will have a definite impact on the war. The determination of that depends on how many people still believe things that aren't true.

The MSM will report a number like this, showing that a solid majority of Americans support a Democratic position. And then they will turn around and continue to do their main reporting based on the assumption that the Republicans represent the mainstream of America. They don't even listen to their own reports!

If only we could get 64% of the Senate. Damn, a veto override would be the next best thing to impeachment.

That discussion occurred long ago, Farnsworth, and it's settled.

No, we're not a pure democracy -- we're a democratic republic, with an amendable Constitution limiting what can and cannot be done by the people and government at all levels.

For better or worse -- and those "worse" times include the moments when we might choose to elect the wrong person, or vote to approve/disapprove a tax levy, etc. -- in the end, the PEOPLE decide. That's the price we pay for those democratic elements, and that's also the beauty of our system. We're ALLOWED to make mistakes, if in fact our choices turn out to be mistakes. A certain level of mistakes is obviously to be expected.

But we're not always wrong -- and the bottom line is, WE THE PEOPLE get to choose. If you're longing for smoothly running government and society, no doubt a "benevolent dictatorship" looks mighty attractive -- assuming only benevolent and qualified people run things. Other than in a fantasy world, it ain't gonna happen; it CAN'T happen in the real world.

We should rejoice in that truth. How did Churchill put it? "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Exactly.

then those 64% are just the lunatic fringe. Everybody in the know knows that consensus is generated in a 5-mile radius from the Washington Monument and then simulcast to the neobots for general dissemination.

Yesterday on NPR (ATC), in the story about the Senate passing the funding bill, they first report the bare-bones story, then have on *minority* leader Mitch McConell to drivel on about how horrible it was. This is the liberal media. The news story becomes "democrats are surrender monkeys" rather than "Democrats act to bring about end of war." The 64% want the congress to end the war, but not be surrender monkeys - who would want that!? So, despite the reality that mainstream American wants the war ended this year, they will be spun away from that desire by Republicans and the MSM.

I am reminded of this:

"The 'haves' and the 'Have-mores'; some call you the elite, I call you my base." -George W. Bush

Exactly what percentage of the American population would the "haves" and "have-mores" make up? 3%? 5%? Hmmm... 5% versus 64%.

To Iraq.

The last time Bartlett was in Iraq he was quaking with fear the whole time. The photo of him shrinking down in full anti-ballistic body armor and looking as though he was about to puke, or cry, or both, is so classic I actually made a copy of it and put it on my home office wall. It's a daily reminder of these soft, pudgy, cowardly chicken hawks who don't give a damn how many Americans die.

Next to his picture, I have a countdown calendar with the number of days the Bush administration has left in office. Even though time is growing short for these sons of bitches, it can't come soon enough for me.