I didn't watch the debate, but good for Gravel for exposing the idiocy of the "if we get out w/o 'victory,' our soldiers will have died in vain" argument. As he rightly points out, this is exactly the nonsense that was put out during the Vietnam era. The mainstream Dems are complicit in this tragedy, and let's hope that the MSM doesn't completely drown out the voices of Gravel and Kucinich as things go forward.

The Dems are producing watered-down policy. What Gravel highlighted involves serious treaty violations, not to mention principles regarding not placing nukes on the table against a nation that has no nukes. Rummy was making that mistake in Feb '02, and now we have 'tough sounding Dems' making the same mistake in '07.

It's shameful - half of them probably don't even understand the NNPT.

Similarly regarding Gravel's mention of the Bush Axis of Evil speech. There are principles regarding the avoidance of de-legitimizing (let alone avoiding regime change policies) in non-proliferation practice.

Dems get on your game! God bless Gravel for at least trying to make these debates relevant rather than buzz fests.

Salon, Huffpo, all the major blogs, along with mainstream media outlets keep giving us this crap about electable candidates...it is time to put this nonsense behind us. The American people will have a say in who is electable, not the Beltway punditry, not Hollywood-loving media hounds. We also have to steer clear of the "flavor of the month", i.e., Obama, who is showing his inexperience and lack of finesse as time wears on. I would not want him in charge of the war until it is wound down. I don't think he has the ability to carry out the right decisions.

Gravel, though he may not win, has opened up the Achilles' heel of the front runners, and called them out on important matters...he was refreshing...the mainstream media, even Salon, may find his statements off the wall, but they were the only moments of genuine originality in the whole snorefest.

There's a disconcerting theme cropping up in Salon's coverage of the 2008 Presidential race. Yesterday there was a story purportedly about an "attack ad" put out by a GOP candidate with no hope of winning the nomination. And now this piece on Mr. Gravel.

Memo to the Editor: statements of fact should never be characterized as "attacks" in any pejorative sense. Mr. Gravel was speaking plainly, from the heart -- as did Dennis Kucinich last night -- and the sooner our media stop pinning the "hopeless" appellation on candidates who speak the truth and who speak from the heart, the sooner we may step closer to saving the democracy we've all seen slide down the sh*tter during the past six years.

this is one voice that could challenge the reasonable, avuncular manner "important, knowing" types use to lead us astray.

do we want mr. shrill telling some truth or mr/ms. shill telling some lie?

biden: yes.

Well, the first thing I want to say is…”Mandate my ass!”

Because it seems as though we’ve been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate – or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running.

But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan…meant it. Acted like an actor…Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We’re all actors in this I suppose.

What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune…the consumer has got to dance. That’s the way it is. We used to be a producer – very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources will control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don’t know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don’t know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain’t nothing but the name of an airport now.

The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it’s only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie.

Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren’t zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous “B” movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will be Casper “The Defensive” Weinberger – no more animated choice is available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from the book called “Voodoo Economics” by George “Papa Doc” Bush. Music by the “Village People” the very military "Macho Man."

A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we’re looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap steak tough. And Bonzo’s substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho!

Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate with the accent being on the dupe - cause all of a sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley “God-damn” Do-Right?

“You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.” That was the mandate. To the new “Captain Bly” on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat – as the head of the Studio Actor’s Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy – Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from “Bonzo” to Birch idol…born again. Civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights…it’s all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it…first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom.

Nostalgia, that’s what we want…the good ol’ days…when we gave’em hell. When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with it. To a time when movies were in black and white – and so was everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because they knew the only thing available was – Crow.