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Monday, September 18, 2006 12:00 AM

Allen on race, Webb on women

The Virginia candidates for the U.S. Senate debate.

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Monday, September 18, 2006 07:09 AM

Webb on Women

Yes, you are absolutely right. There is no difference whatsoever between associating with the modern day Ku Klux Klan, hanging a noose in the governor's office, or publicly using racial slurs and questioning whether it's appropriate to put women into combat situations.

Thanks for working against a potential Democratic Senate pickup.

Monday, September 18, 2006 07:12 AM

Webb

As a liberal Virginian, Webb has given me more to worry about than promote up to now. He seems intelligent, but provincial. He seems to have an air of quiet, confident, leadership-by-example. However, he's also been a non-entity as a charismatic politician. Webb's MEET THE PRESS performance, however, finally gave me a little to belive in.

Webb's paternalistic views on women in the military are certainly disappointing. I doubt Allen is less misogynistic, and Webb's explanation at least came across as genuinely contrite about his "immature" statements, if not his premises as a whole. I'm not trying to be an apologist, but Webb's views appear(ed?) to be more about "should"--as opposed to "can"--women fight alongside men. On the misogyny spectrum, this is far from out-and-out sexism. Though this view still rings of paternalism, likley bred by ignorance and the skewed views within the military, it is a view that should be considered less offensive than...oh, say...outright racism. Those in the military do carry a unique perspective, which shapes their opinions in ways not everyone can understand.

As for the rest of the MTP broadcast, Webb was surprisingly agile and effective. He didn't get flustered, even as Allen repeatedly tried to yell over him about football or whatever. Webb made the points he needed to make. And his explanations about Iraq was as solid as most Dems ever muster. It's sad that Virginia has a choice between two dip-chewing yokels, but it seems Webb at least became better educated in his years on this planet.

Allen got the "macaca" beat out of him.

Monday, September 18, 2006 07:14 AM

Webb

As a liberal Virginian, Webb has given me more to worry about than promote up to now. He seems intelligent, but provincial. He seems to have an air of quiet, confident, leadership-by-example. However, he's also been a non-entity as a charismatic politician. Webb's MEET THE PRESS performance, however, finally gave me a little to belive in.

Webb's paternalistic views on women in the military are certainly disappointing. I doubt Allen is less misogynistic, and Webb's explanation at least came across as genuinely contrite about his "immature" statements, if not his premises as a whole. I'm not trying to be an apologist, but Webb's views appear(ed?) to be more about "should"--as opposed to "can"--women fight alongside men. On the misogyny spectrum, this is far from out-and-out sexism. Though this view still rings of paternalism, likley bred by ignorance and the skewed views within the military, it is a view that should be considered less offensive than...oh, say...outright racism. Those in the military do carry a unique perspective, which shapes their opinions in ways not everyone can understand.

As for the rest of the MTP broadcast, Webb was surprisingly agile and effective. He didn't get flustered, even as Allen repeatedly tried to yell over him about football or whatever. Webb made the points he needed to make. And his explanations about Iraq was as solid as most Dems ever muster. It's sad that Virginia has a choice between two dip-chewing yokels, but it seems Webb at least became better educated in his years on this planet.

Allen got the "macaca" beat out of him.

Monday, September 18, 2006 07:40 AM

The flag...

Democrats and/or liberals will never win in the South or win the support of those with Southern ancestry if they can’t realize that the confederate battle flag, in addition to symbolizing the worst qualities of the South, was also the banner under which individuals fought, bled and died to protect their homeland from an oppressive, often rapacious and murderous, invading army.

Was the South wrong to support slavery? Of course. Should the feelings of African-Americans be respected? Absolutely. Is the flag far too commonly misused by racists as a catalyst to stoke divisiveness? Most certainly. But you have to understand that many Americans (mostly European-American, but some African-Americans too) who acknowledge the wrongness of the South’s objectives, but simultaneously wish to honor their ancestors who acted with bravery and sacrifice, hold a nuanced view of the issue and refuse to spit on our families’ graves.

Symbols have multiple meanings, depending on the viewer. Your refusal to acknowledge any view on the flag, other than that which is politically correct, is to your own detriment.

Monday, September 18, 2006 07:43 AM

What a choice

Webb is a sexist jerk who seems to be imbued with the contempt for civilians common to many military careerists.

Considering who his opponent is, I might very well vote for him if I lived in VA. But I'd have to take a looooooong shower afterward.

Monday, September 18, 2006 07:57 AM

Still not thrilled about Webb, BUT...

As a woman who served as an Army officer, and as someone with several friends who are female former Naval officers who are appalled--APPALLED--that Webb is running as a Democrat (that article he wrote in '79 still makes them as angry as if it were written yesterday)...I have to admit that the issue of women in the military is a complicated one, and that he does have a fair point with regard to the issue being overly politicized on ALL sides. Sure, it's easy enough to support "equality" in the armed forces, and the notion that women should be able to serve in "combat," whatever that means (news flash: by my definition of "combat," which is "people are shooting at you and you're supposed to shoot back," women have been serving in combat for some time, and certainly are doing so in Iraq). But scratch below the surface on the women-in-the-military debate, get into the weeds on specific issues--sexual harassment, pregnancy, physical training, and even issues that you would think would be fairly innocuous, like women's uniforms (should we wear skirts??)--and you'll find that female military officers and feminists who have never served have strong, virulent disgreements, with the female officers often finding themselves wishing the feminist "reformers" would just butt out. And of course, female officers and female enlistees are not necessarily on the same page either.

So, I'm not saying that ultimately I would agree with Webb if I could talk to him about these issues at length, and I'm as appalled as anyone by that '79 article he wrote for the Washingtonian, but I do think Webb has nuanced views, that some nuance is actually called for on these issues, and that nuance does not lend itself well to "Meet the Press." So I will actually cut him just a tee-tiny bit of slack on this one pending a more thorough explanation from him.

Now, that's on the women-in-the-military issue. On the gays-in-the-military issue, I cut Webb no slack at all. That one's a no-brainer.

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