We already have a civil war in Iraq, skyrocketing oil prices, an emboldened Iran and expanding Islamic terrorism. So can we bring the troops home already?

"...civil war in Iraq, skyrocketing oil prices, an emboldened Iran and expanding Islamic terrorism." My God, who would have thought Joe Lieberman would be so astute as to describe the obvious. It's as if he thinks no one else is paying any attention. Hello? Joe? Among the many reasons you lost the primary includes your role in helping to make the list a reality. A U.S. Senator? Come on, I hear these same concerns from the grocery bag person while he/she is placing my eggs (thoughtfully)on top. What are you smoking Joe?

And he is painting a dire picture of what will happen if American forces are withdrawn too quickly: civil war in Iraq, skyrocketing oil prices, an emboldened Iran and expanding Islamic terrorism.

The mind reels. All that stuff HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. I can't believe the bozo has the guts to actually even think anything like that.

Sean

When did Joe Liebermann fall asleep? And what sleeping pill did he use? Wake up, man. What you describe is already fact.

You know, this brings up something. About a year ago now, Edward Luttwak published a very compelling essay (In The Atlantic I believe, or Harper's) detailing why a complete, immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq was the best possible course (and this was a YEAR ago.). It was very convincing.

Leiberman's latest airhead bullshit, not to mention Cheney and Bush's equally airhead bullshit, begs a question: why are we in Iraq now?

*we're clearly not there to make a democracy. That project is an abject failure, will be so for the indefinite future, and if we DID make a true democracy, it would produce a government we would not want, so there is absolutely no upside to that project, no matter what kind of childish gibberish on the subject Bush happens to babble at any given time.

*We're not there to overthrow Saddam. We did that already.

*We're not there to make the Middle East more stable. We're making the Middle East less stable every day we're there.

*Are we there to keep a hand on all that oil? Oil we will desperately need at some point soon, if we want to maintain our profligate ways? Ok, that's a reason to say, but is it enough of a reason? Has anyone calculated how much energy and money we'd SAVE if we just left? If we spent all that money developing alternative energy sources, and designing ways to cut way back on our energy use...not that we would--that's political suicide in this piggish nation. But it's a nice fantasy, isn't it?

*we're not there to stop terrorists from attacking us again. By staying in Iraq and wasting enormous sums of money and vast amounts of energy we just make it EASIER for terrorists to operate.

*maybe we're staying just so it IS easier for the terrorists..when they attack again, the GOP can just dispense with our democracy, re-install Bush for life, and institute a junta. Or something.

*******Given events to date, it's really hard to avoid the notion that we're there to make money for the biggest private corporations in the global military-industrial complex. Corporations that employed many of the top people in the Bush Administration. Maybe that's all there is to it. We're there because the Bush Administrations best friends make a LOT of money from this war. If it goes on for 10 more years, they'll make even more money. Maybe that's all it is...because, if it's not that, what the hell is it?

I could go on. The problem is, there is no good reason for being in Iraq. Not that there ever was.

We should begin an immediate withdrawal. Keep a couple of the big, heavily defended bases near the southern oil fields (a-la Guantanamo), keep a presence in the Gulf, otherwise, just let the Iraqis sort things out themselves. Inevitably a religious dictatorship dominated by Shias will come to power, or the area will separate into three autonomous regions, all weak, and dominated by Iran.

I think the only reason we stay there now is to allow Cheney and Bush to save face. After the November elections, win or lose, Bush will declare victory and withdraw anyway. Or, we'll cut WAY back on our troop deployment there...we'll leave just enough troops there to maintain the fiction that we didn't "cut and run" but it'll be a fig-leaf.

What a mess. What a horrible, unspeakable mess..and all because a rich Connecticut white-frat-boy-addict was elected prez by yahoos who have no idea what America stands for. They'd have been more at home in Nazi Germany.

I mourn for my country. And I spit on the Democrats who unleashed this fury: Clinton, who couldn't keep his dick in his pants; Gore, who ran one of the most inept campaigns in American history (and still should have won..and would have, if he'd fought harder after the election); the Democratic party, that can't decide what's more important: their corporate masters or the good of the people. At least the GOP doesnt have THAT kind of problem; and John Kerry, who could have done something about this if he hadn't run an even more inept campaign than Gore. The Dems completely misunderstood how dangerous this fascist GOP is. I despair of them.

Most of all I spit on the half of the country that BELIEVES all the crap the GOP is selling. What is it about the red-state voters? Were their frontal-lobes damaged at birth? Gah.

I despair for my country, now more than ever..