Letters to the Editor
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I'll do you one better
"pacificwhim
Thanks, pacificwhim, for your intelligent post.
I've said it before in the letters forum and I'll say it again: Religion = Poison. IMO, religion and religious people are responsible for more suffering, destruction, hatred, and murder across the ages (and currently) than they are for making the world better. The net result of the existence of religion seems to be negative. I wish religion would just go away. I know that will never happen but it's a fantasy I have with increasing regularity these days.
Of course this is just my opinion and I'm guessing I'll get blasted from lots of other letter writers. Oh well.
-- kenai9 "
I don't think organized religion is all that bad -- at least it bribes a lot of being into following the rules instead of everyone being an unruly, atheistic idiot. If there were no big man with a beard watching your every move, lots of people would probably act a LOT worse than they do now, and things might be a lot worse for all of us. Of course, i personally think that the higher-ups in organized religions who have followers and can control people probably become very cynical and drunk with power and start shit (like the Crusades) for their own egomaniac reasons. But, for the average shmoe, i think religion has a civilizing effect.
i bet i'm gonna get REALLY slammed by the "spiritual" liberals up and about. :)
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LeCastor
Well, I think religion sucks huge, organized or not, so we disagree on that and I'm not going to try to change your mind or belabor the issue.
I'm atheist. The atheists I know are mostly calm, logical, reasonable people, with morals more sound than the religious people I know. Again, this is just a fact of what is my personal experience. Perhaps there are people out there who know some atheists who really suck, who are not like the ones I know. Fine.
I don't think you can say that in the absence of religion "everyone" would be unruly idiots. We really have no way of knowing that, but at least atheists don't blather on about their "faith" as an excuse for why they believe and do completely irrational things. If anything, religion and ridiculous religious texts have given believers and people of faith an excuse for their acting like unruly idiots. The current state of the world demonstrates that even with the existence of religion, things are a complete mess, and it's pretty clear at this point that religion has played a big part in making the mess. That's why I said, IMO, that the net result has probably been negative.
For example, and this is just one example, religious fundamentalists are willing to blow themselves up, taking "innocent" people along with them, so they can be rewarded with lots (don't know the exact number) of virgins when they get to heaven, or paradise, or whatever the fuck they call their version of eternal bliss. Nice. And that's just one example of the sherr irrationality of it all. It's tiresome. Seriously, I'm weary from it.
Again, I liked what pacificwhim had to say. I hate to sound like John Lennon, but could we imagine for one minute what it would be like?
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Echoing what Lynx wrote
Ms. Schwarz,
I think that this is the first time I have ever read a point where you actually point to what is happening inside of the California prison system. You have ranted that the prison guard lobby runs Sacremento, and that all of us are a bunch of evil hypocrites for not paying attention. What you have not done to date is give us any examples (which now you have) or given any references to back up what you said (still haven't).
I will sort of echo what Lynx wrote: what is your dog in this fight? As Lynx said, this is obviously a very personal issue for you. I'm trying to figure out your motivation is, as almost every post you write talks about the California penal system.
I admit that Abu Gharib disturbs me, but then again, I knew nothing of it until I saw the infamous New Yorker article. Beyond your occasional non sequitor posts, I have no information. So, give me some references to read so that I might understand.
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This is corruption, and all religion is corrupt
The way I understand the Christian acceptance of torture (along with other seemingly non-Christian concepts such as wars of choice) is informed by how I understand religion. See, all the world's religions began with one or a handful of spiritually inspired people (later called "prophets") who had some kind of genuine spiritual experience. They shared this experience with others and drew followers. The focus was largely on the truth of their transcendental experience, less on a cult of personality that developed later.
This truth and the attention it drew developed worldly power, as does anything that draws lots of attention, and began to attract those who were drawn to power. Thus, a spiritual experience becomes a religion when it accepts and becomes built around a human power structure. Basically, religion is the intersection of spirituality and the politics of human power over one another, usually with the latter replacing the former.
That doesn't mean there aren't people who subscribe to a religion who have a sincere spiritual connection to that religion's truth. I even know one (only one) Catholic who is very devout and one of the wisest people I know. However, I would say she's certainly the exception to the rule.
In general, I feel that organized religions -- and particularly these Middle-East-spawned ones that turned "god" into a man with a long white beard -- are a virus that has caused insurmountable damage to humanity and is currently threatening us with annihilation. Religion itself has become the dark, destructive force that most of its books prophetize. The sooner a critical mass of people can see their way out of this trap, and shed the vestiges of obsolete 2000-year-old mindsets, the sooner we can truly progress as a species.
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Christians against torture
The religious right has often said that progressives, or Democrats, are the party of godlessness. And whenever that charge is made the inevitable response from progressive quarters is: who, us, hostile to religion? Well, if religious conservatives want their views confirmed they can come right here. I've found similar vitriol on other progressive Websites. Come on, are the religious rt-wingers right, or not?
If you care to go to the original story in the National Catholic Reporter, you will find that the official Catholic teaching is that torture is never permissible. That's right. Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of moderate evangelicals, recently had an article titled, "5 Reasons Torture Is Always Wrong." I don't know if I can post a link here, but the URL is http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/002/23.32.html
Some of us really do take seriously Jesus' command to love our neighbors as ourselves.