Well, dont you sound like a divorced white woman with a chip on your shoulder who has passed the chip down to your daughter. Many rappers have their own record labels. Even if they didn't, are you saying that old rich white guys not only control the message, but also control the buying public's tastes ? Why would sexist/racist old white guys allow so many black and white women to be so successful ? Why don't they control the message from their female stars ? You need to take a serious look at your sexist views.

As someone way down thread so rightly pointed out, rap music IS white music. The vast majority of rap consumers are white, and the music companies that produce and promote popular rap music are all headed by white men.

My very bright 17-year-old daughter just made this Observation: "Think about it--the only rap music that gets the financial backing of the big music companies is the kind that's mysoginist and/or glorifies 'ghetto culture,' violence, pimp culture, and thugism. The message is, Stay in the ghetto, and it looks like it's coming from black people, but it isn't.

What better way to keep a people down than to tell them, with messengers that look like them, that down is exactly where they want to be?"

There has been so much written and said about this issue, I'm hesitant to add anything, but as a father to 2 teenagers, here's my 2 cents.

Rap music dominates popular culture. Imus and Bernard do not. The attitudes and values, and sense of cool, that are being bestowed on my kids, outside of their parents values are from MTV , radio, magazines etc. This is an MTV culture. People that listen to Imus and Bernard have already passed the point of being influenced by their BS. I listen to Imus for the political commentary and ignore the garbage. My kids listen and watch MTV. To say people like Imus and Bernard inspired rap music's misogyny and racism is shockingly ignorant. I know Joan prefaced this statement with "men like....", but please, what stodgy old white men that came before Imus inspired this generation of rap music?

Joan, this (of yours) could be the last word, in my opinion. "But if rappers stopped using bitch and ho, we'd still have plenty of racism and sexism in the world. That's my point." But I'm sure it won't be and I'll prove it by continuing on!

We in this country have a past full of racism, sexism and misogyny. But we also have a present full of racism, sexism and misogyny. Sometimes they're combined (as in this recent case), sometimes not. None of us is off the hook for this--NOW in the present. Regardless of its origin and who subscribes to what belief system, The Golden Rule (treat others as you would have others treat you) seems to me to be the last word on how we should treat each other (as others have said in this thread) as human beings.

Context is part of defining intent as Joan said. If what is said is hateful and hurtful (and can't we all tell that pretty easily), I need to say out loud that it's not okay with me. I need to stand up.

daisygirl, if that makes for a bland world, sorry (but not!). There are too many examples of clever, funny, sharp wit that don't incorporate racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. to convince me that without them the world would be bland.

Once again, you got a point. A lot of brothers need to do some serious soul searching. Being a “ young black male” violent gangster lyrics is an inescapable subject, and I have had hundreds of dispiriting conversations about the subject, as well as received a couple hundred pieces of hate mail online, some of them death threats. So in a sense, I’m glad the subject is being brought to the light, and I’m glad that Snoop and co is going to have to feel some of the pain he inflicted on “ playa hatin ho’s” who won’t “let the homies have none”.

But even if the hammer of this nation is put on these brothers, and “ hip hop culture” is given a through flogging, we will still have the problem with the suburban white teenagers who buy the bulk of this music. These kids couldn’t recognize Ladybug Mecca, Erykah Badu, and Jean Grae if they were put on a missing milk carton, and if Common, Mos Def and Talib Kweli showed up in their neighborhood, they would call the police. But they know more about the latest thug rapper than the rapper’s publicists does . And these rappers know this. Why do you think Eazy E contributed to Bush the elder’s campaign in 1992? Why does Dr. Dre in concerts, yell to his white audience “ should I smoke that nigga” and have them respond back. Why did fifty defend bush against criticism of his response toward Katrina and call him “ a real gangsta” Why do you think Jay z said “ y’all respect the folks who get shot, I respect the shooter” in an anti-snitching song in his last track. How is it my fault that so many middle class white kids buy the most diseased and disturbing images of me over and over again? Do I have to wear the mask and plead for my humanity every blankety-blank day of the week to change their minds? Do black men have to become America’s cosmic mammies and do the job that those teenagers parents aren’t doing?

And spare me, Gordon, with the myth that we haven’t talked about this. The fact that you, and about 250 other salon letter writers, keep repeating this shows that you haven’t used a brain cell to actually analyze what black people actually say to each other. I would tell you the dozens of writers, intellectuals and organizations, who have voiced their vehement disapproval and have protested against this music, but I wouldn’t want to get in way of the self pitying white guy fit that you are throwing. And you have to find an another analogy about Dave Chappelle and black rappers, for you kinda made that one up. He quit the show after he came back from Africa.

Given the dehumanizing crap that has been popular in the past 15 years, I believe that we ( I.E brothers) have a lot of this coming. How this whole sordid affair can be anything other than another reason to give “ urban culture” another thorough flogging is an entirely different subject.