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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
Gee, bankrupting the treasury does not count?
"I didn't sell my soul for politics..." He maybe sold his soul a long time ago, but, during his 8 years, he sold the Dept of Justice, FEMA, Homeland Security, the Economy, CHIPS, the Constitution, Truth, Justice, and The American Way for politics.
Everything he touched, he broke. Politics and his narrow ideology was the basis of everything he did and did not do. It is well known and documented in books by those personally experiencing it that he politicized everything. While we are all distracted with the transition and the fact that soon he and his cronies will be gone, he is still selling out. He is signing laws that prohibit access to contraception, and other reproductive health at home and abroad and leaving some little messes in environment and protected species behind. Somebody needs to keep an eye on him for the next few weeks. He is not as helpless as he appears, though his physical appearance, his speech, his thought process---never stellar---is very telling that he is clinically depressed. He is depressed because "the fates" were not kind to him.
I suppose it is a blessing, Joan, that he is delusional. How could anyone live with themselves knowing that there is not one saving grace to be had having been given not only the opportunity of a lifetime but the gravest responsibility of a lifetime and totally blown it?
It will take at least 15 years to make repairs while he levels the fields in Crawford with health care for life, a great pension, and all the quirks of a retired President. At the end of the day, what could anyone have expected from someone who had never held a job until he was 40 years old. His greatest achievement was part owner of a baseball team. I rest my case.
I agree, the argument that Iraq's nuclear capability necessitated us invading were weak to non-existent. However, WMD (I think, could be wrong here) includes also Chemical and biological weapons. I have a vivid memory of Bill Clinton stating that it would be more likely that Saddam would use these weapons if we invaded than if we kept with the current strategy. Our troops weren't wearing chem gear because they liked it - trust me!
My argument was that, given the reasons we intervened in the Bosnia/Serbia conflict (which I think were good), I think it's fair to argue that we should have invaded Iraq given what Saddam had done to his people and the kurds.
To me, this is two basic questions. Should we have invaded - I think yes given the situation we were presented with. Secondly, did we screw it up badly and wreck all the good that could have come from it - I think yes on that one too.
I think a different strategy post invasion would have created a much different conversation about the war today. But, we'll never know and those who managed this post invasion should be hung in the town square.
But, should we have invaded in the first place? Again, I think yes. I think the mindset at the time was, we let bad situations fester and it led us to 9/11. Time to stop the festering where we can. I think to apply the reasons for Iraq with the evidence in NK and ask "why not there too?" ignores strategic operational thinking and the options available vs the expected and potential outcomes for each region. Did we end up with worst case in Iraq - absolutely. Was it all our fault - absolutely.
I think it's unfair, given the valid strategic post-invasion options given by those who were ignored and shoved aside by Rumsfeld and his dept, to take the results of our invasion and apply them to the decision to invade at all.
Groenhagen: "1. Iraq had consistently failed to comply with UNSC resolutions and might—no one could of course be sure, precisely because of Iraqi noncooperation—have retained or recovered the capability to use or to export chemical or biological weapons."
Not a reason. UN inspections were ongoing. There was no rush EXCEPT for the fact that the U.S. military did not want to invade during the hot summer months, which would have made supply-running and other operations miserable. If UN inspections had been allowed to continue it would have forced the U.S. to wait to plan an invasion in the fall months. But Bush also knew the public will to support an invasion couldn't be sustained that long. So basically he rushed us headlong into a war in spite of a total lack of planning for an effective occupation. The criticism against Bush and the Iraq war is not only that it was wrong, but that it was conducted so incompetently that its ill effects were compounded. Be sure to keep ignoring that important point throughout your messages, as you have shown such skillful capacity at this behavior thus far.
"2. Saddam was a bloody tyrant who had committed crimes against hu-manity, if not outright genocide."
This reason is a total joke. If the U.S. invasion was based on Saddam's crimes against humanity, then the U.S. under Bush is guilty of a ridiculously uneven application of its own principles. What, our foreign policy suddenly "found religion" about one country and one country only, selectively ignoring every other country with a dictator? I'm all for removing tyrants, but please explain why Bush didn't invade and occupty North Korea or any of a number of other countries if "humanitarianism" was anywhere near the top of the list of reasons for the war? If you keep using this argument then sooner or later you will have to explain why you shouldn't be laughed off the web site.
"3. The overthrow of Saddam might help to break the gridlock of the Middle East peace process by sending an unequivocal signal of hos-tility to any regime that defied the United States—pour encourager les autres, as much as to get rid of Saddam himself."
Wow, the reasons for invasion and occupation keep getting thinner! This basically amounts to "we're engaging in war to set an example for the other bad dictators out there." The argument bears no relation to the reality of what happens in war. Does hitting a hornet's nest with a baseball bat make all the other hornets fly away in fear?
"4. Creating a democratic Iraq might also begin a wholesale “transfor-mation of the Middle East” (in the words of Condoleezza Rice), with Iraq once again setting an example for the other Arab states."
Right, good-old nation building! Exactly what Bush said he was against when he was campaigning in 2000. This reverse domino theory was not a reason he used prior to the invasion. But it was just that -- a theory. It certainly doesn't justify attacking anybody. It also plainly ignores the difficult strategic realities of turning an entire populace, split into very distinct factions, into peacefully democratic citizens overnight. In other words, it's just nutty....though it sounds real nice on paper, huh?
"5. Controlling Iraq might create alternative bases for U.S. troops in the Middle East, allowing them to leave Saudi Arabia (and thereby meeting at least one of the radical Islamists’ demands.)"
Aha! Well at least there's a little honesty to this. Even if that honesty didn't last. Nobody talks much about the 14+ major bases we've built in Iraq, which are like little barricated cities. Nobody talks about what we're going to do with them when we "leave," either. In any case, "we want a place to put army bases" is FAR from a valid reason for waging war!
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"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason [for invading Iraq]."
--Paul Wolfowitz, Vanity Fair interview, June 2003
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Salon headlines in your mailbox
