trying to find measured reason here is like swimming the whole length of the bosforous.

add o'donnell to the brew, and what you've got is nuthin's new.

As a white guy, I am so sick of white people who turn into blubbering babies about any suggestion that they are racist.

You mention how whites are sheltered and privileged. Speak for yourself. A lot of us white people live in the real world. We realize that racial acculturation has affected us in many ways. We have all kinds of friends. We have all kinds of acquaintances. We've had negative and positive experiences with people of different backgrounds. Our whole lives we've been recalibrating our opions on race based upon those experiences.

And we don't curl up in the fetal position when someone suggest that we may not be pure and perfect.

The white people who really drive me nuts are the holier-than-thou prissy liberals who have money and went to nice schools and think that their "civil rights" credentials make them extra special white people who get a pass on our country's racist legacy.

A lot of other white folks just roll with things.

Joan you are the best, but...

I can't agree with the whole premise that Bill is the reason why Obama wouldn't pick Hillary for VP. I can't accept that because the "Bill factor" is the theme coming from the msm. And I've been fed enough of their bull crap. Really it is a continuation of the villainization of the Clintons. You can't tell me that someone as politically savey as Bill wouldn't know how to campaign for a presidential ticket with his wife's name on it. The media wouldn't be the same attack dogs, as they were during the primary, because Obama's name is at the top of that ticket. A lot of stuff Bill said, during the primary, was twisted and tweaked as part of the plan to get Obama nominated. I think its pure jealousy. I think Hillary, by just being the smart, articulate, fighter that she is would outshine him like a newly minted penny. The Obama people are cutting off their nose to spite their face. He will join the ranks of other good democratic candidates who are still licking their wounds with could've, should've, would'ves, like Dukakis, Gore, Kerry and even Teddy. If Hillary were a man Obama would be expected to put him (her) on the ticket. You know that is the truth. So there it is, she's a woman and they're jealous. Like this isn't something we've all seen before. Its just that this has got to be the grandest scale ever for the same play ground arguments we've all experienced in one form or another.

I feel ya my friend. People who feel they are spotless, and the purest of the pure, are the people who buy the bunk of their own pure manure.

Earth to Joan:

According to the last census there are about 15.3 million poor whites in America. The black population has about 8.1 million below the poverty line. With the total number of Americans below the poverty line at around 33 million this means that nearly half of the poor people in America are white. And yes, Joan, being far from sheltered, I'm sure they have "those" stories.

It's uncler to me what's media hype and what's reality. I have difficulty believing that Democratic Convention planners debated on whether to include a past, two-term Democratic President.

As to giving up on Hillary for VP. Yeah, I guess so. Initially I did not think she would be the right choice. Now I see where Obama is having trouble and what he needs to win. Specifically he needs Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida. States where Clinton could really help. So now I wish Obama would choose her. Let some of the smart people decide what to do about Bill but don't forfeit the Election!

The fact that days ago Bill Clinton could not put his lips together to say that his party's nominee was ready to lead the country is Exhibit A to why his speaking at the convention was in question. If this is the bests he has for the cameras, what's been said behind closed doors?

Further, while Bill may not be anybody's Strom Thurmond, he has a tin ear when it comes to his own racially charged actions (his South Carolina comments, his saying that Hillary's loss was because black people blindly sided with Obama, continually calling Obama a "kid" (which is a little too close to "boy" for many) - when Obama is older than Bill was when he ran, etc.). Rather than acknowledging his own bad behavior and being a little circumspect, Bill has chosen to double down, making random proclamations of not being a racist (which in my own experience is often what the guilty tend to do). Through his actions, Bill now looks like just one more person who believes he gets a free pass on racially inappropriate comments and behavior because he "has a black friend."

I live in Atlanta, where I have heard in many quarters African Americans (particularly those over 50) who said that they were pro Hillary, largely due to their fondness for Bill Clinton, until his racially charged actions. I know that people in my city are not alone. In short, Bill has managed in seven short months to do real violence to much of the goodwill he built over the fifteen years that preceded 2008 with the black community.

Bill's actions and his patent lack of support for candidate the voters chose may ultimately be to the detriment of the party. Further, it shows a real selfishness and self involvement. Moreover, it certainly explains why folks were somewhat leery about giving Bill a microphone and a massive audience in Denver so he could tell us all why Hillary was the real deal and crap all over his party's choice some more.

whew! I almost forgot I'm hispanic! You got a problem with that?

While I think that Obama and Clinton share similar strengths and experience, they also share similar weaknesses that can be attacked by Mccain's camp.

I don't think either one of them would have enhanced the other one in a presidentail race against the Republicans, and that's who we are going up against.