Let's not forget, here, that it was BILL who blew it for progressives, by failing to keep it in his pants and getting caught. Conservatives LOVE it when the Clintons are the story, because they get to snicker some more about what a couple of slimeballs the Clintons are, and act like the guardians of morality (even though we all know they're a bunch of Vitter-Craig-Stevens-Gingrich hypocrites). The Clintons don't get to act like the injured party here, because THEY INJURED AMERICA. Bill's indiscretions are THE reason that Gore didn't win that election in 2000, and to pretend otherwise is fucking ridiculous. I think it's about time some liberals started accepting that. The main reason I voted for Obama in the primary, and am excited about voting for him for President, is that I can't wait to have someone with some damn integrity in the White House. I'm sorry, but as a feminist and a woman, hell as a human being, I was very disappointed in Bill's behavior. Just think how much more they could have done, how much more we could have accomplished, how many wars we might have avoided, if Bush had never been elected; if the hypocrites had never had a REASON to mess with impeachment. It's sad. "I did not have sex with that woman" caused millions of people to pretty much never believe another word that comes out of either of their mouths.

Mind you, Bush is worse, the injuries Bush has perpetrated are FAR worse, the Clintons DID do a lot of good, I'd have voted for Hillary in the general if she'd won the primary, etc. etc... I know this. I'm just saying. I have a lot of conservative friends and relatives. No Clinton is ever going to win them over. Obama, on the other hand, has certainly won over some of them.

So yeah, I for one have a hard time mustering any sympathy for the Clintons. They had their way with this country for a good long time, and I don't think a good economy and peace should have to come at the expense of a zillion sex scandals and a carpetbagging Senate run. Come on! We can do better!

This was still such a sore subject for so many people.

I just don't get it. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton (it seemed clear to me) cared about one thing during the primaries - WINNING. They were doing what (I'm ashamed to say I've defended them against until now) they've always done which is play the game to win at all costs. Everything is a demographic or spin to be used as a means to that end.

that's the trade off for them I think. None of it matters as long as you win and get the power to do what you want. The race was just their means to that end and, I think anyway, it was clear they felt the end was theirs to take and Obama and his supporters were just in the way.

Bill Clinton said during the SC primary that Jesse Jackson won there twice running for President. If there was anyone on the planet that didn't take that to mean "well, Obama's black and Jesse's black and they won by getting the black vote here in SC but...it's just an anomaly because they're blacks getting black votes" they weren't paying attention. That includes you Joan.

I am glad to read so many posts saying this was a non-issue, everyone has moved on, and the Clinton's did themselves so favors in how they've behaved during the primary and after. I was a fan ..... not anymore.

Their page in history has turned.

I have to tell you, I used to read Salon every day. I used to pay to do it. I stopped paying a long time ago because of the bias you've shown and seeing guys like Tim Grieve leave. I still used to come and read every day but again, Joan, your writing bias and the increase in crap like Camille and Alex have decreased the number of visits I make to your site.

I spend most of my time on Steve Benen's site now along with a couple others...

If it weren't for Glenn Greenwald I don't think I'd ever come back to peek in on you. War Room has turned to crap, your movie reviewer sucks, you obviously have a bias towards the clintons, and there isn't much else here to keep be coming back.

Honestly, I think it's time for you to move on...

Best of luck!

"Changing minds takes time"

And in your case alone, your mind is set in stone.

So often, I feel that Joan Walsh is well worth reading. She provides articulate, reasoned commentary. But there's just something about the "unfair treatment" of the Clintons that just seems to stick in her craw even now.

I wish that Joan Walsh could understand--despite all of the affinity that she has for the Clintons--why so many of us are sick of enabling their "victim" neurosis.

My question is this:

WHO exactly has called Bill Clinton a racist?

No one credible as far as I've seen. Certainly no official surrogates.

Every decent discussion or analysis that I recall has been extremely nuanced. Both Bill and Hillary Clinton do APPEAR to have used race as a wedge. I can understand the point of view that they simply had a few inconvenient slips of the tongue. I don't quite buy that, but I gather that Joan does not quite buy the idea that Hillary Clinton was using race as a wedge to bring more "hardworking Americans, white Americans" to her side.

A reasoned response acknowledges both possibilities and likewise acknowledges the legitimacy of the negative response in the African American community and elsewhere. Whether or not the Clinton's intended to offend African American Democrats and others, they did.

Instead of pouting, how about some positive action to dispel the impression that the Clintons created (either deliberately or not). Hillary has proven to be far more of an adult than her husband in this regard.

To repeat earlier posts of mine: Bill Clinton owes us. Bigtime. We rallied behind him when he SELFISHLY put his political fortunes and those of the Democratic Party in the mouth of an intern.

I have no more capacity to be sucked in by his egomaniacal whining.

Poor Bill, some people don't like him, Boo Hoo.

Where's the arrogant jerk who proclaimed politics a contact sport?

Bill Clinton, put on your shoulder pads and buck the hell up or hit the showers!!!