But, perhaps unfortunately, it's not unforgivable. Even with this vote on this piece of crap legislation, he's still better than McCain.

I couldn't vote for McCain even if he approved of Roe v. Wade, voted "no" on FISA and was a Democrat. McCain still would be completely without any plans, nightmarishly out-of-touch with modern technology, possessed of a demonic temper that should never be anywhere near The Button, and dishonest with others and with himself.

I wish he'd done differently on FISA, but this is only one fire of about 200 (and counting), and Obama's the only chance we have to put out the other 199.

"He is counting on supporters having no place else to go" This

is the way he has operated from the start of his political career.

When he ran in Illinois he made sure there were no other names on

the ballot. Same deal with running for US Senate. Having

a Republican opponent like Alan Keyes is the same as not having

any opponent.

It's easy to beat a candidate up for what he does, republicans are the masters of the universe on that, it doesn't matter what position is taken they'll have a spin on it.

Someone early on posted what may be a reality. The headlines would have focused on his lack of support for the fight against terrorist activity which may have been far more damaging.

FISA immunity is not dead by a long shot, there will be an array of challenges to it, one being that the vote was cast in the dark.

Obama is probably one of the more analytical candidates we have had for some time.

He is running against an opposition that wrote the book on using whatever he does against him. Quite frankly if his opposing vote wasn't going to make a difference anyway he needed to think about how his vote was going to be spun. McCain took the easy way out, Obama should have done the same thing. Republicans would have made a huge deal out of that even though McCain didn't either.

Quite frankly I've been a bit concerned that there is a war rabbit to be pulled out of a hat here called Iran. I'd much rather have a deliberate Obama than an unstable and clueless McCain on the spot there, let's hope it doesn't happen as a ploy for Bush to get more time.

Beautifully written, Joan. You've nailed it.

I don't think anyone in politics has real principles anymore. Money has completely shortcircuited the process.

You'll note Obama didn't even wait until after the election to start rewarding telecoms for their outsized contributions. McCain, too, did his part by skipping the vote - but calling in to say that had he been there, he'd have voted against anyway.

So it's a perfect score: Telecoms and Bush 1, workers and civil liberties 0. All in favor said aye, and none were against.

I don't believe the Dems had a sudden change of heart and began fearing domestic terrorism. Yes, they're spineless and will shy away from conflict with rabid Repubs. But Bush long ago lost his ability to cow them en masse.

No, the only explanation that fits is garden-variety sellout. Without cash you have no campaign, and without a campaign you have no career in politics. Even a minor loss in campaign fundage can bring death. Every pol knows this, and none wanted to die.

So the bottom line is, it's change we can't believe in after all.

Leaving progressives with only one choice -

Go ahead and vote the two-faced SOB into office anyway. Then hold his feet to the fire, using means fair and unfair, legal and illegal, to MAKE him do what's right for the American people.

Take back the streets. Rain on his victory parade.

Or fail. Either way, we're better off without McNukes in power.

Markos was pretty much a referee and commentator during the primaries. The Daily Kos is a community of (mostly) progressives, and over the primary season, after the departure of Edwards et al, they gravitated to the most progressive remaining candidate. It pains the dKos community and Markos to see Obama tacking to the supposed center -- there lies the same doldrums that Gore and Kerry fell into.

WRONG!!!!!! we have many options and voting for him isn't one of them after this week especially.

I know the OB supporters will try somehow magically try to blame Hillary for making him vote that way,but he did this last straw issue for many.Maybe the DNC see will wake up!

Yup, it sucks. BO's a politician. As such, he MUST, ultimately, compromise his principles to attain his goals. In this way, he is the same as McCain. But there are other critical differences (Roe v. Wade, Iraq, Supreme Court nominees, etc.) that make FISA pale in comparison to the potential nightmare of a McCain presidency.

First, let's get him elected. Then we need to make our politicians drag out and fix the whole rat's nest of assaults on civil liberties that we've been powerless to stop over the past seven years...from the Patriot Act to FISA. If we don't hold their feet to the fire, we are to blame. And if they blow this historical opportunity to lead (like Dubya did with his in 2001), they won't get another chance.

Remember, the 2010 election season begins on Jan 20, 2009!

This 'either/or' approach based on cherished idealism is commendable, but not realistic. It may also mask a desire to see the candidate you didn't support in the primary fail.

This will be my first presidential election. I just became a US citizen from Canada (dual citizen now). I watched the US and international politics for many years from the Canadian side. I grew up with cable and ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and all the Canadian stations, so I was, and most Canadians are, aware of what's going on in the US - and have been for a long time.

Both the Republicans and the Democrats suck. Ask anyone on this planet. You think the United Fruit Co. wasn't screwing up Central America during Democratic governments? You think the CIA with Allende, the Shah and pre-Shah Iran, reneging on trade agreeements with Canada and many other countries, was only supported by the GOP and only occurred under Republican presidents? You think JFK wasn't supported by special interests and promoted the interests of the US elite? Come on! No one wins the presidency without winning the support of the dominant power structure.

In order to win the presidency Obama needs to be in the center and he ultimnately needs to assure everyone (and everyone with lots of money) that he's safe. And even if he does, he would still be a profoundly transformative Democratic president. I am amazed at how many Democrats do not see the historical significance of an African-American president. In fact, as a Canadian, I find it shocking and unsettling. Shameful, even.

Then there is the reality of the supreme court. Or, the international system - his election will transform how the US is viewed internationally in a manner it seems like most of you still can't appreciate. A good way, without biases borne of American history and culture. Wow. And to think you would let that go to accept a lesser choice.

Freedom is a necessary precondition to happiness. The country needs to return to its constitution and fulfill its mandate. The FISA vote is crap, I fully and completely agree. It was done out of a calculation for political advantage. There must be other incidents of compromise, to be sure - and even more if he's elected president. That's life with the United States, sorry to tell you. Everyone else on Earth knows this. But an Obama presidency will stretch beyond the orthodoxy and he will force a deeper level of analysis into all manner of policy while also not being dependent on any one grouping of interests. Hence he'll deliver some pretty reasonable solutions to issues that are perceived a bit more objectively. Believe me, that situation will be light years ahead of whatever McCain can hope to deliver.

I say, every Democrat/anti-Republican needs to get behind Obama and that it's not all terrible. Then, once in government, the Loyal Opposition needs to ensure rights, fairness, the Constitution and the pursuit of true equal opportunity, along with other Democratic principles, are strictly adhered to.