Spare me the bull. If you didn't roll over for every single lurch to the right made by Clinton, your protestations against Obama would hold a little more water.

I hated this bill, didn't want Obama to vote for it. But if you really care about restoring Constitutional rights, you aren't going to get it with McCain in the White House.

That's just a stone cold fact.

And you ain't going to restore civil rights by voting for Nader and the Green party.

I'm going to start calling you people copperhead Democrats. All you're doing is giving aid and comfort to the real enemies of our civil right and the Constitution.

Let's put Joan's comments against Obama in perspective:

She has said that it has taken her almost 8 years to forgive her friends who did not vote for Gore. Joan is wondering if she can justify voting for Obama now. Joan found it almost impossible to forgive her friends who weren't happy with Gore. She isn't happy with Obama. She has a thing about forgiving. She has a thing about who-we-all-should-vote-for.

It's almost like Joan figures out the "right" thing and then has an Old Testament she can apply to even those she cares about.

She isn't sure if she will vote for Obama (I applaud her for this consideration by the way). She knows those of us who did not believe in Gore were doing something immoral. She's intense. And so when she writes about Obama's weaknesses and how she may not vote for him, you've gotta remember how she feels about those who didn't believe in Gore. She is either going to pat you on the back for knowing what she knows or you will represent the "bad guys" who are making things worse for us all.

And this is a very limited context in which to "know" Joan. I get that.

Joan,

You are startng to sound more and more like Glenn G. If I wanted to hear about FISA silliness 24/7, I would read Greenwald, but I don't, so I read you. Get off the FISA nonesense and start being more pragmatic, like Obama.

Obama knows he has this thing "locked up" unless he is rocked by a disaster like the "pastor disaster" or there is a major terrorist event 2 days before the election (like in Spain). So he is innoculating himself such that he is not seen as "soft on terrorism". He also knows that as a democratic POTUS, he cannot afford a major terrorist event under his watch or he is "toast".

If you or Glenn were in his shoes, you would do the same thing.

there isn't a dime's worth of distance between Obama and Clinton.

I'd say the Constitution is worth one hell of a lot more than a dime, what?

Not that you'd know it from Obama, Mr. Constitutional Law professor. Er, instructor. Or something.

What has Salon become? Planet pork? I've counted three articles on the pleasures of the pig. Is Salon becoming synonymous with pig slop? Probably so...

I think I *do* have somewhere else to go:

http://www.gp.org/index.php

I'm just not going to hold my nose and pull the lever anymore. It's been a horrible eight years, and the last two have been the worst. Why? Because the "opposition" party finally found themselves in a position to perform their Congressional duty of checking and balancing the Executive branch. They failed. Miserably. Period. When the Republicans had full control of both the Congress and the Executive branch, there was the hope that eventually they'd screw things up so badly that people would actually crave some checks and balances. They did, people did, and the end result up until now is not one iota different than had the Republicans maintained their majority. I feel the Democratic Party has forsaken people like me. They believe I'll hold my nose and continue to pull the lever regardless of their lack of principle or the lack of synchronization between their lip service and their deeds. Not any more. They will win the elections in November, but minus my money and my vote. Don't try to pin the "whiner" label on me, either. This is the only sane recourse a rational voter has when confronted with a political party which has abandoned their principles in order to win elections regardless of the cost to the nation as a whole. The Republicans let it happen to their party over the last thirty plus years. "Monkey see, monkey do", it appears, holds true for political parties as well.

I see a tacky, banal sellout.

I see people here complain about Obama's "vote" but as far as I know there has been no vote yet. Is there something I am missing? Are Hillary supporters--including Joan--so unhinged they are talking about votes that never happened?

First of all, Joan, it's summer - and a hot summer it is. How much HOTTER it would be if you would share your concerns about Obama on video in a tied-off halter, or possibly while stretched out on a chaise longue with Tracy rubbing suntan lotion into your back. Can we at least get a sundress setup? Just a thought.

To complement this, a meat-eating friend has suggested that you top off the week with a 60 minute video of Rebecca chowing down on sausage, bacon, ham hocks, pork rinds, pickled pig's feet, you name it - Porking on Pork, courtesy of Broad-and-Getting-Broadersheet. No audio except the slurping, snorting, smacking, chomping sounds of Traister at the trough.

Finally, you never got back to me on the Salonistas calendar. Maybe the paper calendar format isn't the right way to go - since "clicks rule your world" (to paraphrase GG) and you're obviously willing to whore out to the max to get them, maybe you could make the pix a Salon content area instead. What with the need to find a flattering-but-Maximesque outfit for Rebecca to stuff her pork-fed bod into, it might up her average research hours per byline, but I think it could be worth it. Again, just a thought.