You mean you don't believe Walsh's wishy washy statement that she "admires Obama?" How could this be?

I agree with every single word Joan! I am heartsick as I look at what has been done to this country over the past ten years and the pathetic choices we have to repair what has been ruined.

Is there anything we can do? The Democratic convention hasn't been held yet. Can the candidate choice be changed?

I just want to add a very big thank you for employing Glen Greenwald Joan. He is spectacular.

Actually, that subject head is just a tease for attention, but there's something to it. Editor Walsh has so consistently used inflammatory language in her column headlines and in her columns themselves that she has damaged her credibility. As a Salon subscriber who pre-dates Walsh's editorship, I've felt betrayed by her as both columnist and editor. She was anything but even-handed during the primary season, and so I react with trepidation and increasing distrust to each new musing she sends our way.

To say that Obama's vote was "disappointing" makes perfect sense, and to see it as part of some political calculation that seems to be in keeping with the notion that Dems "play defense" at their peril also seems fair.

But to call it unforgivable? Hmmm...is she advocating that people not vote for Obama? And to somehow raise the spectre of taking the nomination away from Obama ("before he officially has the nomination") is still playing the Hillary card (all the way to the convention, my foot!). At least Walsh acknowledges that her preferred candidate caved on Iraq years ago. And I don't think it's silly to at least admit that NOT being the nominee allows Hillary some space in each decision she makes that Obama doesn't have. I have a very strong feeling that Hillary would have "caved" on FISA just as Obama has, were she the nominee. We saw the way Senator Clinton began to pander when she realized the nomination was slipping away from her; we've all heard the gossip about how she confided that she had to appear "tough" to win the general election. These are signs of her tendency to turn into a "politician" in certain key situations.

I think many here are right, that Obama could have stood up to this giveaway from a position of strength and constitutional scholarship; I think that the Bush administration is full of criminals and letting them off with anything other than a presidential pardon (which would have been inevitable, anyway) is unfortunate. I still believe, however, that Obama will practice good, constitutional government IF he wins.

Yes, I am disappointed, and I don't agree with the strategy or the reasons behind it; but I will still vote for Senator Obama, and I won't need to "hold my nose" to do it, even if some of his positions have disappointed me. There are still plenty of other parts of his platform that work for me.

The old notion that there's little difference between the GOP and the Dems has been so clearly disproven in the last eight years that voting for McCain, Nader, Barr, or not voting really does strike me as short-sighted. Even Noam Chomsky has admitted that he sees that little differences make huge differences in policy.

People tend to forget that the left came to Obama after Edwards dropped out, and only because Clinton would not apologise for her vote on Iraq.

Obama was a "different" kind of guy because of his willingness to reach across the aisle. He would leave the left/right distinctions of the 60's behind.

This is what was meant as post partisan politics. The young voters who STILL support him do so because they eschew labels and want more pragmatic governance. I don't see how Obama has betrayed who he is.

He will end the war in Iraq long before McCain would. He will not get us involved in another war of convenience. He will work to end partisan bickering and get a deal done on energy, health care, and the environment.

It's a democracy people. Nothing gets done with out compromise. We can demand absolute purity and get nothing or we can elect Obama and get most of what we want and need.

You would have written the same column if he had declared that people really should brush their teeth.

Sen. Obama's supporters are now spinning his spins on issues like FISA and withdrawal from Irag as examples of how he is a true leader who can change his mind when he is presented with new information.

Thank you for clarifying your position as a GOP Troll.

Sometimes I dunno if I'm dealing with addled Harriet Christian PUMA's, Donatist Nader cultists, or GOP Trolls.

Sice you brought up the GOP LIE about changing position on Iraq, it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you are as Republican as they come. See, that is a GOP talking point, an utter lie. A lie by liars. By propagating this propaganda you are a lying liar who lies.

Go back to Free Republic

It's a continual downhill slide for this increasingly mediocre web site.

I used to enjoy reading it.

Is there any question what Hillary would have done were she the nominee? Look at her campaign in PA. She was already moving to the center. Remember, she was shooting guns with her grandpa in PA when she was a kid. Gas tax holiday. Kyl-Lieberman. etc.

I have no doubts what Hillary's vote would have been were she the nominee.

But she isn't the nominee, and won't be in 2012 if Obama loses.

Time to move-on folks.

Go to the following websites to register your outrage and match it with action: http://accountabilitynowpac.com/ (Glenn's PAC), and the ACLU, who will be suing over FISA, http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/fisa.html.

I'm hoping Obama will fix this when he is president, and will be wise enough to hold to his promise of having "someone watch the watchers" because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

To be fair to Joan, she said she didn't think she could "ever forgive" Hill's AUMF vote, so "unforgivable" isn't exactly new language here.

I do, however, hope that we can dissent and still work hard--in the real way, not the lip service, so we seem like party-builders way--to elect Obama. For the Supreme Court if nothing else. McCain gives me the willies!