"I don't care why Hillary stayed with Bill. It's none of my business. It's none of your business, either."

On the personal level, I agree with you. The reasons any couple chooses to separate or not to, is their choice. None of our business.

On the other hand, there's really no question at all that Hillary's association with her husband was her primary qualification for the Senate, and in turn is her primary qualification for the presidency. That is very much our business.

I would also contend that it is in any President's interest to ensure that the people in his administration behave in their personal lives in a way that does not shame the administration. That's not to say he's their den mother, or whatever term you might use to imply that he can condescendingly dictate their personal behavior, but it wouldn't do to have someone behaving in a way that displays their personal sexual requirements and lack of self-control all over creation.

In this country, Dick Cheney can shoot a man in the face and not suffer much politically, but if he'd been caught in a porno theater jerking off in the $5 booths, that would probably be the end of his career right there, and would be an enormous embarrassment to the Bush administration, in a way that killing a million Iraqis for a lie pointedly was not.

To that end, Obama should be very worried about what image Hillary's husband would bring out into the world. The Vanity Fair piece seems to indicate that his personal life is still a bit gaudier than would seem becoming.

Would Bill feel constrained to follow edicts restricting his personal life?

Would Bill feel constrained to follow edicts restricting his business dealings, or would he feel free to make deals with dictators Obama (and by extension, Hillary) officially oppose?

Such questions would be foremost in any discussions regarding the feasibility of selecting Hillary as Obama's VP. I would say that when you sum them, and add in the fact that her ambitions towards the presidency are very well known and unlikely to abate any time soon, that they add up to a big NO for Hillary as VP.

Secretary of HHS.

BTW, as far as "proving" anything to Joan Walsh, I don't work for her, and couldn't care less what she thinks about me. I can, however, tell her what I demand from my political media, and in what ways she is coming well short of the mark, as for instance claiming impartiality where none exists.

First of all: where do I find the picture of Obama giving Clinton the finger? I haven't seen that yet.

Second: as far as you know has anybody yet broken down into hard numbers how many Obama supporters there are who made deals with the devil. I'm trying to figure out how much healing the party needs based on looking at accurate figures that relate the number of really awful folks who said they like Obama compared to the number of really awful folks who say they like Clinton. I'm hoping that if we can scientifically prove who's worst are worse, we might have a chance against McCain. It's not easy though because if you just go by anecdotal accounts you find so many racist and mean spirited Clinton supporters and you also easily find awful and despicable Obama supporters. I also notice this odd pattern where people who favor Clinton tend to "know" that it is the Obama people who are really awful in a special way, whereas the folks who like Obama are convinced that Clinton has some just downright terrible people saying they support her. It's hard work healing this thing.

Do you know how many people cheat on their spouses? Do you know how many spouses decided that the good outweighs the bad and remains in the marriage?

I don't care why Hillary stayed with Bill. It's none of my business. It's none of your business, either.

Democrats, by definition stay out of other people's bedrooms. The Obama supporters (including Michelle) who repeated the rabid rightwing's criticism's of Hillary Clinton based on her marriage and/or her husband's infidelity have made a deal with the devil.

Let's prove to Joan that the folks who come to her porch (Clinton and Obama people) are more than capable of proving to her that her fundamental assumption is just plain wrong. Let's start talking about the VP issue in a way that is clear and direct but starts from the assumption that we really don't know shit.

Amen, Carol.

Needless to say (hopefully), I'm in.

Totally in.

i know. Let's see how many bad winners we've got on this list...If Joan is right, it will get ugly.

But: I wonder if the vice president conversation can be pre-shaped into something that is less one-dimensional than I'm anticipating. I'm, of course, curious as to how Joan will approach this subject but honestly, I can already anticipate the way she will frame this. She'll probably generate a lot of hits, but my fear is it will be one of those blogs in which we face two or three vague either/or's that all point towards the painful worry that Obama might lose because he is both lacking in certain moral areas and strategic ones.

I people say why they can imagine him legitimately needing to go in either direction (asking Clinton or not). Let's prove to Joan that the folks who come to her porch (Clinton and Obama people) are more than capable of proving to her that her fundamental assumption is just plain wrong. Let's start talking about the VP issue in a way that is clear and direct but starts from the assumption that we really don't know shit.

I'll be back. I can imagine 4 good reasons to find his own VP and 2 good reasons to ask Clinton. NOw let me think about them.

... for many Hillary supporters to vote for McCain, not out of spite, which is an unreasonable position, but simply out of recognition that Hillary essentially ran for the Democratic nomination on a very nearly Republican platform.

So, presumably her supporters would prefer an attack on Iran which will kills millions, and her supporters prefer that we stay in Iraq for many decades, and establish permanent bases there.

These are things that Hillary supports. They are also things that McCain supports, which is why Hillary praises his foreign policy expertise so highly.

So it seems perfectly reasonable that many of her supporters probably ought to support McCain out of ideological synchrony.

Perhaps Mr. McCain can be persuaded to support pro-choice Justices on the Supreme Court. If he took that position, and at this point he can take any position at all, no matter the contradictions, and the media will applaud it, then his platform would be very nearly identical to Hillary's.