Joan Jett said it best years ago:

"Girls have balls, they are just a little higher up."

"As to Clinton, if she displayed evidence of having gained some wisdom into things based upon her experience as a woman, I'd be sympathetic."

"Could you elaborate more? Clinton has been working on behalf of women and children since her twenties. Surely you knew that. She made a bold speech years ago at I believe it was called "The International Conference on Women" in China in which she decried how women were treated. People who think Clinton has done nothing for women, for children, or for feminist issues just haven't been paying enough attention."

This is what makes it hard to communicate sometimes: you say "people who think..." implying I'm one of those people. You're putting ideas in my head. I never argued she'd "done nothing for women..." If I implied that it was in error.

I was talking not about accomplishments, but about wisdom. I never argued her resume was inadequate. To continue with your metaphor, it's simply the wrong resume for me at this time.

"When she talks about 35 years of experience, she is not just talking about the White House years. She has been an activist for liberal issues ever since she gave up her Daddy's influence and her support for the Republicans. Post-Goldwater, she has been doing what her Methodist faith tells her: Doing as much good as she can for as long as she can."

Great, but I'm not talking about "liberal issues," so maybe that's the disconnect between us: I'm talking about liberalism.

I don't believe liberalism can be reduced to a laundry list, though of course, a laundry list has its place.

We're beyond laundry lists, maybe is my point.

"I do wish someone here at Salon would take an honest look at how Methodism has influenced Hillary Clinton. I believe that, aside from her marriage to Bill, it has been the biggest continuing influence upon her adult life. Hillary Clinton is ALL Methodist. Her cerebral approach and to some extent the fact that she seems not very exciting at times stems from the Methodist sensibility. They distrust emotionalism in faith and believe good works are as important as faith. However, it would not be Methodist to go on to much about that sort of thing. Bragging too much about one's desire to do good gains one no foothold in heaven."

I appreciate this observation. It's illuminating and helps me see Clinton as a human being.

(Of course, just when I start to get roped into "Aw, she's not so bad" I remember the war and so much else.

But again, I'm getting a better sense of your point of view.

This isn't about the black community and how they feel. It is about Obama's campaign inciting how they feel.

I dunno Smith. You're losing me on this one. I remember the speed of the reaction to the LBJ quote. And being a pasty-white Fester kind of guy, as well as an LBJ buff, I didn't quite get it. It's really hard for me to believe that either the media or the Obama campaign could so quickly orchestrate such a negative reaction. Which means to me that a lot of people had a negative reaction of the quote independent of any hand waving by the Obama campaign. They didn't need to be told what to think.

It's just like Obama's bitter remarks. You can blame the media for distributing the quote, but not the reaction to it. A lot of people in PA didn't need to be told what to think either.

It's all about uniting

Hillary has sent out negative attack fliers, aimed at Obama, that concern the issue of guns. In these ads, Clinton portrays herself as a champion of the second ammendment, which I find awful ironic, because I always remembered her as an advocate of gun control.

Yep, she goes as low as the low dare to go....

Calling Hillary Clinton "ballsy" reminds me of the backhanded compliments (really racism)that Aboriginal women would often get by taxi drivers, when they learned they were Aboriginal: "You're too pretty to be Aboriginal". (I would get the same thing: "You're too pretty to be Greek". Or, I'd get: "You look more Yugoslavian", especially when they'd learn I was Greek-Macedonian--meaning, I am fair skinned and have light coloured hair. I've never been to Greece, actually, and though I speak both Greek and Macedonian dialects, I don't feel comfortable with either...since my ways are urban Australian. I'm also told, I must be from England because I speak the language so well!).

What I'm trying to say, Joan, is that the job of an alternative media outlet is to question and challenge. Going on about Hillary having "balls" is to see her in phallocentric terms; it's allowing the Right-wing to set the framework of how we regard her--when Salon should be demystifying this tendency of accepting women only if they display what are considered 'masculine' qualities. Masculinity is itself constructed to mean butch, so that men who don't exhibit such hyper-masculinity (that is, aren't macho) are also ridiculed as not being men!--as if there was only one style of masculinity! Hence John Edwards was often belittled for his hair cut, and Barack Obama for his Armani suits--as if caring for your appearance were a feminine trait. McCain himself is often portrayed as being prissy (that is, not right-wing enough--back when he wasn't pandering to Rush and Bill).

Notions like 'manhood', masculinity, and manliness are themselves social constructions, and for that reason should be investigated and analyzed the way femininity and girlie have been. These terms are loaded with sexist bias.

No doubt she does have a set, but I seriously question if Obama has...I really don't give a rat's ass what economists think about the gax tax issue...the scribblings and bloviating of ivory-towered geeks speculating about the right and wrong of Hillary's position matters not a wit to people hurting badly right now...so it's a quick fix...whatever! Does anyone know how long it would take to right the increasing gas prices in the world? As long as India and China are voracious consumers of energy, nothing will change.

Hillary did take on Bill, and she did a damn good job of it...I think he respected her for showing up and going toe to toe with him without engaging in his trademark bullying tactics...Obama did a lousy job on Chris Wallace...he falls flat one on one...I thought he was positively sleep inducing on Russert today, trotting out pat answers and rehashing tired talking points...