Thank you for pointing out to me that I left out the word some. I can assure you that I was striving for parallelism. I meant some black voters.

I think Internationalism is probably it. I spent a lot of time in London in the 80's, and more time in Paris for the past several years. The case for the exclusion of woman is hard to make in London. So perhaps I have an in-between frame of reference.

Speaking of which. One of my sons and I were together in France for two weeks in February, and I was amazed and delighted by the passion that country has developed for Obama. I have never experienced anything remotely like it. As soon as anyone knew we we American, we were bombarded with statistics about state primaries BY COUNTY. State by state, county by county, France is tracking Obama with the kind of precision one usually associates with NASA. One night we couldn't get out of a restaurant because everyone in it was standing around us in a circle asking questions about Obama.

I've never seen a reaction to to an American political figure like this. My parents got Kennedy questions, but I missed that era. The French see magic in this candidate. It was sort of exhilarating to see how Obama is received in Europe.

Wow, that's way fucking cool.

Don't tell Clinton that, though, or she'll throw "French" into the epithet hopper.

"Farakkhan, French, elitist, FarakkhanFarakkhanFarakkhan, FRench, elitist, French elitist, 1968 bomb-thrower..."

Poor dumb America.

Now you are channeling Jeanne Dixon.

I am not sure that Clinton wants to be vice president. In a way, she has already been vice president. However, I will tell you this and I don't need no crystal ball: She sure as hell wants something. She's not in it for her health.

What Obama has to concede or do should he be the nominee regarding Clinton will depend very much on the polls. If they still show vast numbers of working class voters defecting from him and that much of her support will go to McCain, Obama may turn out to be much more pragmatic than you think.

Thanks for your response. Lots to reflect on, but for now I'll say I on understand a lot of the points you're making.

I can see what you mean about not being sure about him. I understand that particularly because, as I say, I began as a sceptic, and had just that sense of unease. I still have it at times, but in short, he's earned my trust. He could squander it, sure, but for now, he's got it.

As to the racism thing, I'll concede your basic point that "Obama started it," to which I can only say, two wrongs don't make a Wright. (God, shoot me now.) Whatever the state of Clinton's heart, her behavior of late has been undeniably racist.

In fact, that might be telling.

Remember Kramer? That "niggerniggerniggernigger" business?

In accounting for his behavior, he mentioned he felt defensive because he was insecure about the crowd's reaction to him or whatever. He said the racist torrent came out because he was afraid or cornered or otherwise feeling vulnerable.

I believe that. Normally he's not a racist but when push came to shove, he channeled his inner racist. That's perfectly understandable, if regrettable behavior.

I think Clinton's the same. When backed into a corner, who did she turn to for help?

"FarakkhanFarakkhanFarakkhan."

Why did she not confront "the black community" herself?

"Look, guys, I understand I may have offended you, I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about it?"

Instead, she threw her hands up in disgust and resorted to her comfort zone, what she's good at, which is combat.

That's my best cold assessment of what's going on.

Maybe she really was hurt by being accused of being a racist or whatever. That's fine, but how did she respond?

Isn't that the question that sheds light on what her presidency might look like?

Just some thoughts.

In any event, I do think I'm developing a better sense of where you're coming from, aka, so thank you especially for hanging in there with me.

I do think he is pragmatic; I don't think there is any evidence that Obama is a dreamy worker. I think his healthcare plan (warts and all) reflects that and from what I've read by republicans and democrats who work with him, he simply isn't the pie-in-the-sky dreamer that his opponents want us to believe.

I totally agree with you that there are definite circumstances in which Hillary or Barack would choose the other for VP.

I'm not convinced Hillary wants to be VP, but my best guess is that, even now, she could get really into the idea (for good reasons).

It was cool. Incredibly cool. Rock star cool. I said I couldn't think of a single example where my association with a woman changed my experience...but during these question and answer periods with the French I felt as close as I am ever going to feel to being adored by an entire country, simply because I am American and we have Obama. I kept asking my son, who is more fluent than I am, what the surrounding buzz was, and it was more of the same...the French speaking to each other in asides not meant for us were as excited as the people quizzing us. This is different in character and in electricity from anything I have ever known. The English understood Reagan, and were proud of his relationship to Thatcher. Clinton didn't seem to be disliked in my memory of things - but this was a mixture of fascination (how did we produce this person) and intellectual respect (this person can really think) and joy (the world isn't going to end after all! America can save itself.)

Yes, I know. Elitism and metrosexual foppery. I don't care.

"If they still show vast numbers of working class voters defecting from him and that much of her support will go to McCain, Obama may turn out to be much more pragmatic than you think."

Indeed, but again, ftr, I don't think most of us deny his political pragmatism and as I say, his apparent pragmatism is one reason I began as a sceptic.

But in this hypothetical you offer, which is a good one, the real key is what he actually does.

There's a reaching out is on a continuum with pandering, so the question is whether his course of action is closer to the first or the second and if the second, are the panders of consequence? Meaning, do they carry a price or are they relatively benign, such as sporting a flag pin?

So yes, I can envision that scenario and am eager to see how he negotiates it.