Letters to the Editor
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@ Xrandadu Hutman
Here's my evidence:
(1) In this first book, Obama presents himself as an agnostic.
(2) He has pushed the story of an "adult conversion" to Christ. [presumably to fix this agnostic problem in his biography]
(3) His "cling to guns or religion" comment didn't sound to me like the comment of someone who had an adult conversion and is a true believer.
(4) At this point, it's highly unlikely that in 20 years of his membership in that church, Obama never heard Wright say any of the stuff he denounces now. He was okay with it when the powerful and connected Wright could help him, and he did not object. Now that Wright has become a liability, he has disowned and denounced him. That doesn't seem to me like any sort of religious commitment. It seems like cold opportunism. It puts his whole membership in the church into doubt.
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Of Course
Obama has yet to strongly disassociate from his wifes statements.......I'm guessing Michelle leans towards Wright, why else would you subject your children to that stuff?
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hongdb, with all due respect...
when you write "I do not doubt for a minute that [Joan] is trying to be a fair dealer here and winds-up catching a good bit of grief for her trouble," you are giving Ms. Walsh far more credit than she deserves.
The fact that she has been like a dog with a bone (metaphor alert!) about Obama's perceived missteps, while remaining virtually silent about Clinton's equally troubling lies and impolitic pronouncements should suggest to you that she is hardly a fair dealer.
I'm all for reasoned, civil discourse. But that doesn't mean automatically granting people the presumption of impartiality in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Obama became a certified white boy today with his assault on Rev.Wright in the public square
Obama served his masta well today with his public attack on that nappy headed negro pastor of his Rev.Wright...
Just like south africa Obama became an honorary white person today now he has all the privledges of being white better get rid of Michelle cause she is real dark that one..
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@ domini
I've always believed that he's just a very good actor, and this is as much a self-serving sham as most of his previous work.
What do you mean by previous work? In the Senate or as a community activist?
I meant his speeches and hope shtick. Acting work.
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From Joan Walsh
Wow, weeping, we just simply and thoroughly disagree.
But I still think you're a thoughtful and sincere person. So I'll assume you were composing your post while GThrasher made his last two.
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@ XH
Obama talked about his joining the church recently.
He said that he was organizing in the neighborhood and people he was working with suggested that if he really wanted to organize the community, it might help if he "went to the community" directly, i.e., as represented in the church.
Obama had not been a church-going person but thought, "You know, that makes sense."
Is this calculating?
No, it's open-minded.
He thought there was merit to the suggestion that attending that church would help him get to know the people he passionately sought to serve.
Maybe he's lying about this, but if we take him at his word (and I see no reason not to), this is a perfectly noble account of his behavior.
There's nothing cynical about it at all and it speaks not to calculation, but to pragmatic problem-solving: getting to know people you want to help, even by putting yourself into an unfamiliar environment.
What's wrong with this?
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weeping
The problem is that 10 year olds are learning in church that the government is trying to kill them with AIDS.
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@ FLASHEDARLING Quilt by Association? YES....
YOU STATE: I don't believe in guilt by association. Especially after someone has broken that association. What Wright said is the opposite of everything Obama has said. The only hypocrisy you can find is Obama saying "we get along" and than later saying "we no longer get along" and if nobody else has had a relationship go south because of differences in belief that you hadn't really seen before then you have a much different life than mine.
YOU ARE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. BARACK OBAMA NOT ONLY HAD/HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH REVEREND WRIGHT FOR 20 YEARS, BUT HE SAT IN THE PEW OF REVEREND WRIGHTS CHURCH WHEN HE SPEWED HIS HATE.
THIS NEWS IS NOT NEW TO OBAMA, BUT HE MADE IT SOUND AS IF HE DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT HATRED REVEREND WRIGHT WAS SPEWING.
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST PERSON THAT "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION" DOES COME FOR OBAMA. OBAMA ALSO HAS RELATIONS WITH BILL AYERS, WHO TRIED TO BOMB THE PENTAGON AND OTHER GOVERNMENT FACILITIES AND HE ALSO HAS A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH REZKO, WHO IS A THIEF.
THIS IS A CHARACHTER AND JUDGEMENT ISSUE OF OBAMA'S.
IF YOU PUT HIS RELATIONSHIPS INTO CONTEXT TO HOW YOUR RELATIONSHIPS ARE, IT DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME AFFECT.
YOU MY DARLING ARE NOT RUNNING TO BE OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
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Wright and Obama
I wonder if all the Obama supporters who tried to explain away Wright's comments, or even defend them will now change their mindes. Will Obama finally finding Wright's comments outrageous leave to many suffering from whiplash as they too do a 180?
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is that your answer to me? weeping for brunnhilde
(from my post of pg 12) or is, "i agree with thrasher" your only response.
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@ weeping for brunnhilde
He thought there was merit to the suggestion that attending that church would help him get to know the people he passionately sought to serve.
Maybe he's lying about this, but if we take him at his word (and I see no reason not to), this is a perfectly noble account of his behavior.
There's nothing cynical about it at all and it speaks not to calculation, but to pragmatic problem-solving: getting to know people you want to help, even by putting yourself into an unfamiliar environment.
What's wrong with this?
I don't think you're so stupid as to not see the difference between going to the church to connect with a community you are trying to help, and joining as a believer.
And that's what he says he did!
In a speech he gave to the United Church of Christ last June, he describing how — as a 20-something, secular community organizer — he knelt before the cross and became a Christian.
"I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," Obama said, noting he did not "fall out" of the pew. Rather, it was a cerebral decision. "I submitted myself to His will and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works."
It's this story of his adult conversion — something he shares with President Bush — that attracts even some white evangelicals, despite his liberal pro-choice politics.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89598497