Letters to the Editor
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Rayon Fog
Pastor Wright has been repudiated by Obama...He was told to slink off to his 10,500 sq ft mansion (bought and paid for)by the Trinity congregation...
Pastor Wright: "I have been condemnded and damned by America. Even the Mexican tile in my palatial estate is sub par. White people have held me down for too long. Ooooh, look at that berber carpeting. Er I mean, how can the blood of my people, excuse me, put the big screen right over there by the humidor.
Too funny...
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@ Rayon Fog
Thank you for your response. As I said, Wright is not the issue, Obama is the issue. So I ask again
Did Senator Obama misinterpret what Rev. Wright said when he characterized the comments as "wrong" "divisive" and "distorted"?
Was he being dishonest? Pandering? Or if he was being honest, did he show poor judgment with regard to his children?
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@Uncle Fester (type of discourse)
Your question:
So how can the discourse elevate, when we would all rather gossip and participate in primate territorial rituals?
is THE question, in my opinion.
Part of the answer must be that there is no hope unless each individual discover what it is in him or herself that reacts in a moralizing manner when such a reaction is not only ineffective but is, mostly, unjustified. This is only possible if we each individually find it absolutely necessary. We mostly don't. It's easier and more consoling to stick with how correct we are. And we very well may be!!! Peronally, I notice I begin to become a prick whenever I'm scared or feel threatened in some way. At those times, I look to blame somebody. I'll even take a nice and well intentioned person like Joan and act as if she is involved in some horrible activity. When I relax and realize that it is up to me to make the kind of social "space" i'm hoping for, I can passionately share my ideas/concerns without the need to make war. Or at least I can apologize when I think I've gone too far.
I'm fairly certain I'm "correct" when it comes to what is lacking in Joan's analysis, but the moment I find myself making Joan's writing about hidden "sins" in Joan, it doesn't really matter what I say; at that point, I've made the discourse, tacitly at least, "religious" (even if I profess atheism or whatever). The moment I make Joan the source of the problem, I've left any hope for a constructive discourse behind.
How do we encourage each other to dig deeper and stay friendly? Beats me. Maybe Nike has it right and we should "just do it".
p.s. Let me make clear: nothing of what I said above should imply I am against strong, passionate statements of one's ideals, hopes, concerns. Typically when one makes the kinds of statements I just have, he or she gets met with the passionate arguement that we must not just roll over and play nice when so much is at steak! Agreed.
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@ realitycounts
Truth be told, I do think Obama was indulging his critics a little. Nobody is losing sight that he is still a politician. Even so, at least he did that, whereas McCain + Hagee + silence = free pass.
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odog
While Hagee, Fred Phelps, Thomas Robb and their ilk live in squalor because they are, you know, saints.
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Rayon
While Hagee, Fred Phelps, Thomas Robb and their ilk live in squalor because they are, you know, saints.
Why does finding a moral equivalent(or lack thereof) make it o.k?
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@Carol indeed
At least a little more self-awareness and self-honesty would be useful. We like to blame the media, the corporations, and sometimes Joan. And certainly there are times when that is justified. But when I look at the letter counts to the various stories, it's clear where the attention is going. I don't think Joan is forcing anyone to post.
But it's probably easier to have a strong opinion based on the more non-rational tribal politics then figuring out if Clinton's Strong Dollar policy during the '90's was good or bad or ugly.
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@virtue 001
Sorry to be late getting back, but the source for the story was me. It was made up (just like a lot of the stuff on Fox News, which according to Joan's latest blog is now a reliable news source). I was making a satirical point about the yellow journalism currently being practiced by Ms. Walsh by bringing up topics she knows are harmful to Obama again and again and then concluding with some sort of phony "but i don't agree with it" caveat to create the appearance of impartiality. I threw in the part about "as far as I know" (Hillary words smacking o the same sort of underhanded method Walsh uses) so people would know it was satire. I enjoy your comments. Carry on.
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more "how", less "what", Joan....please...
Joan says:
That controversy {Joan's speculation that newly disclosed Wright/Obama associations might get loads of attention} might not go away. But this latest flap about Michelle Obama's comments ought to.
It would be helpful for me to hear Joan detail why, exactly, she knows Michelle Obama's comments ought to go away and why Barack's comments/associations ought not go away.
So far I don't see why she is applying a separate criteria to the two. Again, more important than Joan's conclusion would be simply reading how she comes to it. for me.
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@Steve Fox
You are absolutely wrong. The latest numbers show, by several points, that more Hillary supporters would vote for McCain if Obama were the nominee than vice versa.
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Who is Who?
I used to really enjoy reading the comment section. Not anymore. I think most Clinton supporters have bowed out of the so called progressive sights because of the vicious attacks by so called Obama supporters. We really can't know who is who, after all Rush is bragging that he will have a number of covert operatives participating in the Democratic Convention.
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First Negative Lady
To me the biggest draw back to an Obama presidency would be having Michelle as First Lady.
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@ mrsfxc
yes, Rush will have "moles" there...as Clinton supporters. Personally, I think we should all stop throwing around the "you're just working for the GOP!" garbage, but I doubt it will stop, and I've been doing it myself (though I will say, only to 3 posters, and yes, WES, your ears are burning).
Having been around these parts for a while (Salon, I mean, though certainly not as long as some), I want to attempt to illuminate what many people here are feeling and why Joan is being trashed like this.
Joan has been, for the last several weeks, putting out posts that fit the classic definition of "concern trolling." Meanwhile, her unabashed cheering for the Clinton campaign and her refusal to post anything criticasl of the Clinton campaign is fairly disheartening. A lot of people turned to Salon in 2004 to help arm themselves in the fight against W's re-election. When the Swift Boat nonsense started, we ran to War Room for some clarification...was this stuff legal (the 527s)? Were they right? What was the deal with those documents and Dan Rather?
Now, we find Joan participating in the same kinds of attacks against Obama, under the guise of being "concerned" for his viability in the fall. We thought she (and Salon, and by extension, Democrats in general) stood against these kinds of tactics, when maybe all she (and by extension, we) were standing against was the attacks happening to our candidate. We thought we were for something that was bigger than winning, and we're sad when we find out maybe we weren't, or maybe that only some of us were.
Of course, my own personal disillusionment with Joan started with her defense of Barry Bonds last year, but as Olbermann calls it, that's just the toy department.
Look, I know I'm going to get pilloried as a kool-aid drinking cult member who won't allow dissent, but I'm just trying to express why we expect more from Joan than from The Politico, or Real Clear Politics or even (to some extent) Kos or Josh at TPM. Salon now feels like Fox News Left, and until Joan either acknowledges her bias or stops writing, every word on Salon is suspect. Just look at the beating that nice kid over at War Room takes all the time (I'm guilty of that as well, I'll admit). It's because Joan won't own up to her own biases that we assume that everyone who works there shares them.
Sorry for the longwinded post, but I hope it helps contribute to the dialog.