If you're not going to punish Florida by giving them no delegates, why have a revote? The original primary had both candidates' names on the ballot, and neither one campaigned, so you can't argue either had an unfair advantage. 1.5 million Democrats turned out so you can't say it wasn't a real primary. What would be gained by a revote? I'm sure Floridians were very well acquainted with the candidates' positions and rhetoric; they don't need Hillary and Obama to come to their state to find out what they stand for. Just seat the delegates according to the original results.

"If Clinton "swiftboats" Obama"

Clinton has already "swiftboated" Obama in the last week. Does she know how to throw the "kitchen sink." Her egregious ad on angelic young 'uns and the phone ringing at 3am harkened me back to the daisy ad of Lyndon Johnson against Barry Goldwater. hillary was a Goldwater girl then, so I think this is her best revenge :) Exit polls did confirm that the ad worked.

Also, she has swiftboated Obama when she mocked and ridiculed his big rallies and his good speeches and repeatedly implied that Obama is but an empty suit. And then the now debunked ad nauseam story on NAFTA and Canada.

But the one that clinched hillary's swiftboating for me was when she dissed Obama, a Democrat mind you, by saying that besides her, McCain also had more experience than Obama and therefore qualified to run for the President of the United States. I am now convinced that she is a lieberman Democrat, more in line with republicans like McCain.

Now here's a ticket that makes sense. McCain should ask hillary to be on his ticket.

Should hillary get her way with super delegates and the DNC, I expect a mass exodus from the Democratic party and an ultimate hillary defeat. If the right wing made their years in office hard the first time around, they will leave no stone unturned to derail her run to a second Clinton administration. But with it all, we will likely see the ultimate demise of the Democratic party which has strayed too far to the right.

Maybe then we can all think of opening the country up for a multi party system in which they will be forced to coalesce in matters of government.

Black people in Florida (among others) were told not to vote because their vote wouldn't count....so they didn't. The people who did vote in Florida either were prescient enough to predict that the Democratic Party would give in and change its mind (as some here seem to be claiming), or many were voting on a property bill proposition and voted for president while they were already at the polls.

For those voters who were told not to vote and didn't vote--and weren't at the polls already to vote on a property bill--counting Florida's delegates without a do-over amounts to disenfranchising them.

With the candidates not campaigning the advantage goes to the candidate with the name recognition. In FL's case, Hillary Clinton. Absolutely it cannot be considered a fair primary retroactively, after being disallowed in advance. Moreover as DoloresFlower points out, there was a Property initiative on the ballot...that is why a family member voted. If it wasn't on the ballot he wouldn't have shown up to vote because the Primary didn't count. He did vote in the Primary while he was there (for Hillary Clinton by the way, which was from his perspective, a vote for the Clinton team, i.e. the ex President.) He was not familiar with Obama as much. Not everyone is as political as we are. Of course, he is much more familiar now.

Only blacks were told to not vote? Blacks comprised 19% of the electorate*; they comprise only 15% of Floridians. So I don't see the evidence that black turnout was suppressed any more than white turnout.

* http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#FLDEM

I have been thinking the same thing about many of the items you mention except that "swiftboating" only counts if you lose. Obama hasn't lost yet. Let's keep watching. I don't think he "lost" in Texas or Ohio or Rhode Island because those voters had been polling high for Clinton right up until election day. He actually did better than he was supposed to by early estimates. People can say that the negative campaigning worked (and some will say this) but whatever it gave her...the polls were fairly accurate in predicting what happened.

If the polls continue to generally predict the outcome, he will do in Pennsylvania maybe about the way he did in Ohio...but he may win and win by large or significant margins in nearly every other contest left. Which means that delegate wise I don't think that he can lose. Well, he can. I don't mean to be overly confident. This contest has been full of twists and turns..

But if he wins the nomination despite the negative campaigning it could genuinely make him stronger. The Republicans will raise the same issues, and Democrats can say he's "Teflon coated"...he's been vetted...People can stand in a room and yell Rezko at the tops of their lungs or whisper it in dark corners...we're still going to vote for him in the national election.

Just some thoughts. Maybe I'll change my mind by tomorrow....I agree with you that the Democratic Party has shifted to far to the right. I hope that voters can push it back leftwards a little bit...left of either of the main candidates. I feel sad when I hear old time Democrats saying that no real leftie can ever win. I don't think either Clinton or Obama is a true leftie. But the American people after Bush have shifted left as the neocons have shifted right. This is why we need bottom-up politics instead of top-down politics. No more corporocracy. Let's end the war and give more rights to workers.

1. Clinton said Super Delegates should get to choose because "rules are rules"

2. FL and Michigan, and the candidates, signed the 'rules' early on stating if the two states moved before Super Tuesday, delegates would not count

3. They moved, Delegates don't count

4. There are no surprises here. No one should be offended. If the people of Florida and Michigan are angry that their votes don't count, guess what -- they should fire the elected officials they put into office who decided to play chicken with the DNC.

5. If the DNC let's them do a 'do-over' they loose credibility - it sends a signal that you don't have to follow rules. Plus, the bigger problem here -- is MONEY WILL BE WASTED REDOING IT.

NOW, To all of you yelling that these folks have a right to vote:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! THEY DO HAVE A RIGHT!

They had it ANY TIME AFTER Super Tuesday according to the agreement the states, party leaders and candidates signed. By ignoring that, they GAVE UP THAT right.

No Surprises Here.

Clinton folks: continue to piss on Obama and you better start practicing "President McCain" because I'm walking away from the party thanks to you.

Good job.