And really, Salon, Camille Paglia. She was irrelevant in the 80s and early 90s when I attended college - so many others (Pat Califia among them) - whose work Paglia essentially ripped off and badly - that you could give this space to in the interests of reducing the pablum that Paglia keeps repackaging.

Um, you are aware that in the 80's Paglia wasn't published yet, aren't you? No, of course you aren't. Sexual Personae was released in 1990, but it's not typical for books to be immediately taken up by academia (look how long it took people to get around to Lacan). It seems to me that Paglia really made a splash around 1992, but I could be wrong.

That you seriously think Paglia rips off Califia (I'd love to know what) is seriously nutty.

Thanks Camille, but everything after your title is beside the point...

Sarah Palin may be, in some sense of the word, smart, but she is an incurious, reactionary, self-righteous snob, a lot like George W. Bush. And she's as much a feminist as GWB is a cowboy, which is to say, not at all. Feminists do not let themselves get used by dishonorable, lying

a--holes who vote against equal pay for equal work.

Having grown up in casually religious family and decided to join a more involved religion at 18, I have never felt a part of the feminist movement. I felt that the "feminists" looked down on me and I was never included in their label. I always felt I was equal to any task and any man, but some of those feminists scare me.

I come from a family of solid, strong, passionate, religious pioneering women who were never treated as second best or looked down on by thier culture or their men. I live in a community of strong religious women who are involved in church, community, business, family and charity and never feel or are looked on as second class citizens.

The feminists however have this innaccurate vision of religious women as subservient, brain washed and oppressed, doesn't really matter which religion you belong to. They also view religious women, correctly on the whole, as less enthusiatic about abortion, more in favor of adoption and other solutions. It seems you have any view other than abortions should be had for anyone at any age at anytime you want for any reason you want with no thought and no remorse at all, then it seems you can't be accepted as a feminist.

So there has grown up a loose and unorganized group in America on the fringes of feminism. A group who love thier husbands and don't feel subjigated by them, love being mothers and don't feel oppressed by children, are religious and yet value women as highly as any man and support the right for women to work or stay home as they wish without being degraded by men or other women. WOmen who grant others the right to worship as they please without being put down as stupid or blind. Who demand equality in thier lives from society, their families and communities, but also compromise for the ones they love. I guess we are the Fringinists or something.

The fringinists tend to meet anonymously on the internet because one does not want to admit one isn't a part of the feminist club in public for fear of rejection. WE admire Govenor Palin and respect her.The fringinist might not vote for her as a fringinist isn't required to walk in lock step and all vote the same, but they certainly recognize their family in the religious Palin family were the mother and father work together to raise a family according to the families needs, not the gender of the child or parent. They see Palin as breaking barriers and moving things forward and are tolerant enough to see the good she can do despite where her views may differ, and to resent the media trying to cast her as Dan Quayle, because if there's one thing she's not it's stupid. The fringinist is not filled with vile hate and anger. They do not wish to destroy other women, (or men), but rather seek to build them up, whatever their choices may have been that were different from our own, we're all in this boat together. The feminists won't let us in their boat, so we'll just have our own where we welcome everyone who believes in equal rights and wants the boat to move forward. Jump in !

I had quite a girl crush on Paglia when I was an undergrad, having read only Sexual Personae. But then I read more and thought some more, and all I can say, is please, no more Paglia at salon.

So much of this debate in general on the comments might be easier if people understood that feminism doesn't simply mean being "pro-woman" or supporting women's right to make whatever choices they want (maybe to race bait, for example?) That may be one version of feminism, but there are many others. There are versions that don't care how many women rise to the top of the ranks of power--if it's still the status quo they're serving, and if the overall system of inequality stays intact, what matter who's at the top of the dogpile? This is one view of feminism - -that it embraces all struggles against oppression and inequality, and thus is not solely fixated on women alone and how many are in various roles.

The Onion has a superb article on this - something like "every decision any woman makes is now empowering". So, plastic surgery is empowering if it's a choice a woman makes? Yes, to some feminists, and to others, no. The first care that the individual woman makes herself happy through the means at her disposal (self-esteem, yea!); the second probably have different frames of analysis and judgment about social structures and free will (would someone who didn't live in a culture valuing women for breasts even consider getting fake boobs? If not, why is it feminist just because a woman chose it?).

Anyway, UGH--Paglia.