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Wednesday, Nov 4, 2009
Coulda fooled me, but then what do I know.
Not enough. Israel is justified in pursuing Hamas wherever they hide, including hospitals. The only real restriction is on bombing hospitals. And Israel hasn't touched the hospitals, even though Hamas officials are hiding out there dressed as staff.
...will disappear after the war when all the evidence against Hamas, the Syrians and Iranians come out.
Don't be fooled - the Palestinians are not victims - they're (politically) idiots. They had a plan and guess what it didn't work.
Kamiya is merely parroting Hamas talking points - the comparisons with the Nazis and the concentration camps genocide etc. Others are doing it as well. They may couch their comparisons but ultimately the goal is the same - to delegitimize Israel and the two state solution.
The biggest enemies of the Palestinian people are their beloved Arab brothers who have exploited them for their own geo-political gains since 1948.
"DON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!"
Raul, what does your personal experience tell us? I went to Israel in 1969 and in 1970 shortly after the six-day war in 1967. Already then, the reaction of ordinary people was more or less the same.
God may have chosen the Jewish people but as the Bible and history tells us the chosen people was neither better nor wiser than other people. But neither was it worse or more cunning as too many of my countrymen murderously believed only a few decades ago.
I still remember the “gook” talk during Vietnam, and I forgot what the GIs are referring to Iraqis now-a-days, but it’s no better: War dehumanizes people in such a way as to induce them to dehumanize the enemy. War is raging in the Middle East for more than seven decades now, and ever since has been corroding humanity and moral values.
The important message of Gary Kamiya’s article is that a responsible government, any responsible political actor should take the unintended consequences – among those the above - into account when taking war decisions. The unwillingness to learn history’s lessons then is not only a sign of incompetence or simple stupidity, it has its moral ramifications.
And to all those people raging about supposed anti-semitism by Gary: (1) Arabs are semites, too. (2) Not asking Israelis to adhere to common moral standards is implicitly debasing the Jewish people. (3) With public opinion in the U.S. overwhelmingly in favour of Israel, it is pointless to repeat incessantly that Hamas’s moral failures are by far bigger.
The tragic outset of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – two peoples promised the same land – does not allow moral condemnations trumping peace efforts: As long as each side sees itself as the victim – and therefore morally superior – and is accounting up the "by far superior wrongs" of the other side to a "few regrettable collateral damages" inflicted by the own side, there will be no peace. After all, it took former Irgun terrorist Menachem Begin to sign the peace agreement with Sadat. Should Sadat have continued to reject Begin because he had been the leader of Irgun who bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in the fight gainst those stalwarts of Western civilization, the British? Thus, it might very well be that Hamas leader in exile Khaleed Mashaal will be the guy to sign the peace agreement with Israel.
And to come back to your personal experience, Raul, of course Mashaal feels the same way and far worse towards Jewish people as you observed Israelis towards Palestinians.
I agree with most of what you wrote, but would add the following:
the Palestinians are not victims - they're (politically) idiots
They're worse than idiots - their animal hatred of Israel and jews is also a problem.
The biggest enemies of the Palestinian people are their beloved Arab brothers
Don't forget the Iranians.
"The important message of Gary Kamiya’s article is that a responsible government, any responsible political actor should take the unintended consequences – among those the above - into account when taking war decisions."
You mean like Iran and Syria arming Hamas!
Too much goddam hyperbole - man we're choking on it.
Especially Gazans.
Doesn't matter - Israel will defeat Hamas, destroy the tunnels, remove the missiles and rockets and the Hamas goons in Gaza that survive will have to figure out something else to do with their lives like making Gaza in to a Med resort.
The problem with the Israeli offensive is that it targets not only Hamas but the entire population of Gaza. Israel as the occupying power (keep in mind it continued to control Gaza's airspace and borders) has an obligation to protect civilians. The fact that Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas (by a small majority by the way and on an anti-corruption, rather than a political, platform) does not alleviate this responsibility.
As for Palestinians being filled with hatred, as you claim, I think you are simply projecting. How much hatred does it take for Israeli soldiers to block rescuers from the International Red Cross for 4 days while starved Palestinian children cower next to their mothers' dead bodies? Your hasbara makes me sick.
You should have your own talk show!
Jonathan,
WHY exactly do you think the Palestinians hate Israel so much?
What are the things that Israel has done to the Palestinian people over the past 50 years or so that might be the cause of such hate?
The problem with the Israeli offensive is that it targets not only Hamas but the entire population of Gaza.
I'd be interested in seeing anything showing this, other than your say-so. AFAIK, civilians are being killed because Hamas puts its assets (and asses) in civilian buildings.
What's beyond dispute is that, if Israel wanted to inflict truly heavy civilian casualties, we could, any time. In fact, we could just bulldoze Gaza into the sea. We haven't.
What a prodigious poster you are
Thank you Klytus, that's quite a compliment, coming from someone with 5200 posts! (I've got 170.)
WHY exactly do you think the Palestinians hate Israel so much?
I don't have to think, I know. And you can know also. Just check out Hamas's Charter.
I'll bet you won't report back to this group what's in it.
An Israeli columnist issues a scathing indictment of Israel and calls on the U.S. to apply pressure.
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